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Old 09-09-2013, 05:09   #16
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pirate Re: Can Marinas Turn a Boat Away When Seeking Safe Harbor?

Its called... 'Having your cake...!!'
Or as Scoobie puts it.. 'You've freedom from land.. so go swivel'
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Old 09-09-2013, 05:53   #17
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Re: Can Marinas Turn a Boat Away When Seeking Safe Harbor?

It's often a matter time. Marinas that have a lift and can haul boats can be taxed to their limits when preparing for a named storm with their crews working 24/7 just to haul the boats in their own yard, particularly on long stretches of the ICW where they are scarce. If a yard turns you away it's likely because they simply do not have room or the time to haul you before the storm hits.
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Old 09-09-2013, 06:07   #18
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Re: Can Marinas Turn a Boat Away When Seeking Safe Harbor?

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Originally Posted by Ocean Girl View Post
Can Marinas Turn a Boat Away When Seeking Safe Harbor?

Hurricanes,
Yes they can. In Australia I went into the cyclone area in the cyclone season because the 2 marinas there both supplied me with their government required Cyclone Plan.

Then when a Category 5 headed our way neither let us in! Both said they could only take boats to Cat 2.

To put it mildly I was in DEEP do-do!

Do your research because theres a SEA in 'research'.


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Old 09-09-2013, 06:07   #19
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Re: Can Marinas Turn a Boat Away When Seeking Safe Harbor?

Boats tied up in marinas can often damage the marina facilities. A floating dock is relatively light well secured and has low windage. A dozen trawlers at 10tons each and really make a mess of things if they start breaking free if just one was poorly tied off by the owner.

So they don't have to risk thier property to secure your property. Presumably, you could anchor out, dingy in and be safe and secure on land.

Now if a marina takes your boat out and anchors it prior to a storm, that could open up a nasty can of worms for them because if in any way, it could be claimed they did less than thier best to secure your vessle, the burden is on them.
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Old 09-09-2013, 06:14   #20
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Re: Can Marinas Turn a Boat Away When Seeking Safe Harbor?

IIRC the Spanish harbour authorities are legally obliged to offer shelter to any vessel caught out by bad weather.
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Old 09-09-2013, 06:15   #21
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Re: Can Marinas Turn a Boat Away When Seeking Safe Harbor?

"Safe harbor" is a concept that applies to governments. Essentially, it describes a willingness to forgo visa and possibly other paperwork requirements for a vessel that is in some immediate need. That can, of course, refer to a vessel trying to escape a storm, but most countries will also grant "safe harbor" for vessels that require repairs or even are just in dire need of provisions.

The term has nothing at all to do with private marinas. What's more, while most countries around the world will grant safe harbor to a vessel in need, there are a few that won't. So you can't just count on it no matter where you go.
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Old 09-09-2013, 06:24   #22
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Re: Can Marinas Turn a Boat Away When Seeking Safe Harbor?

As I understand it a marina can turn any vessel away as they are a business run on private property as already indicated in this post.

Maritime law is written by the IMO and hence UNCLOS (United Nations Convention on the law of the Sea). UNCLOS makes no distinction between a ship and a yacht. This is a good and a bad thing as yachts have the protection of the shipping laws but also the liability that these laws and most of the precedents are tested by ships.

There is no clear law that gives a vessel “Right of Entry” because of the potentially huge environmental impact that a damaged ship can cause to the coastal state.

Refering to:
[QUOTE=sailcruiser;1334894]A good read:
IMO | Places of refuge
I refer to the following excerpts:

“ The right of a foreign ship to enter a port or internal waters of another State in situations of force majeure or distress”
“constitutes an internationally accepted practice, at least in order to preserve human life”
“Meanwhile, the right of a coastal State to take action to protect its coastline from marine pollution is well established in international law”

Small yachts carry relatively small (compared to ships) amounts of harmful liquids and bunkers and any yacht damage can usually be prevented from causing environmental damage. Yachts therefore pose a minimal environmental threat to the coastal state as long as steps are taken to prevent all environmental impact before entering the coastal state’s waters or place of refuge.

My interpretation is that (as long as these environmental/repair steps are taken) yachts “have the right to enter port in situations of force majeure or distress in order to preserve human life”. This interpretation (of the above) UNCLOS statements (for yachtsman) does not in any way negate the masters obligation to his vessel and crew. Yachts must be prepared, maintained and manned to the accepted standards as laid down by the IMO and UNCLOS.

However anytime when the safety of life at sea is threatened is a valid enough reason to seek shelter and the coastal state cannot refuse admission to port unless it is suspected that admission will cause environmental damage.
So this matter isn't clearly written in law by UNCLOS or the IMO however, they have acknowledged these rights as common law/practice. Until such time as a ship founders within a harbour (causing massive environmental damage) this ruling will most likely remain as is.
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Old 09-09-2013, 06:37   #23
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Originally Posted by Blue Stocking View Post
Marina staff take your boat out of a berth for which they have been receiving payment in good faith--and put it on the hook--and it gets damaged.

A good lawyer would get you a nice new boat, I'd be willing to bet.
Except that a good lawyer wrote the contract that you signed before you starting making payments. That same contract clearly states, in bold letters, that boats not removed for a named storm will be moved by staff and the marina accepts no liability for any damage blah, blah, blah. You have two choices, accept the terms of the contract or try another marina.

How much would you like to bet? :-)
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Old 09-09-2013, 06:38   #24
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Re: Can Marinas Turn a Boat Away When Seeking Safe Harbor?

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Originally Posted by Ocean Girl View Post
Can Marinas Turn a Boat Away When Seeking Safe Harbor?

Something came up during a discussion about Hurricanes, credit to Rakuflames for bringing it up. Can a Marina turn away a vessel seeking refuge during a hurricane? This came up during Ike, a boat was turned away from a marina, who will remain nameless, and this vessel suffered severe damage. This marina did not have significant loss, so it is reasonable to assume this boat would of been ok, had the marina allowed refuge.

For full disclosure, I do not know this vessel. My friend, who I trust and known since i was 19, told me about this situation after the storm. He is friends with the owners of this vessel, and was involved in the last minute scramble to save the boat. He was outraged over the situation and said it was against the law to turn a vessel away. I assumed what he said was true, but maybe it was a statement made during the outrage and stress of seeing all the destruction. Though he is not the type to even exaggerate.

Anyways, does anyone know the answer?

I know of four marinas in my area that do close when the winds reach a certain height, usually tropical force velocity. That's what would make it possible to do things like spiderwebbig, which would prevent exit or entry to the marina.

Part of taking care of one's boat in such a situation is doing so in a timely way. I believe it to be legal. The marina has a responsibility to the boats already there.
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Old 09-09-2013, 06:44   #25
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Re: Can Marinas Turn a Boat Away When Seeking Safe Harbor?

this marina offers safe haven to those with engine repair needs from in pacific who get towed in and from storms with names that threaten this lagoon.
for anchorers who seek shelter in named storms they receive no fees.
i just had a ship of russian souls in a ferro cement beauty seek shelter because their engine ceased functioning suddenly fro no apparent reason---- they were towed in and repaired, waited out a named thing and left for acapulco.
there was also a fishing boat in need of shelter from lorena--came in used dock as a shelter and left as soon as lorena left. dockmasters blessings.
there are still some areas in which our safety is a concern.
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:01   #26
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Re: Can Marinas Turn a Boat Away When Seeking Safe Harbor?

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Originally Posted by Rubikoop View Post
Except that a good lawyer wrote the contract that you signed before you starting making payments. That same contract clearly states, in bold letters, that boats not removed for a named storm will be moved by staff and the marina accepts no liability for any damage blah, blah, blah. You have two choices, accept the terms of the contract or try another marina.

How much would you like to bet? :-)
Lawyers often write intimidating contract language to head off lawsuits not because they would win those lawsuits.

Once the marina unties the lines, the burden is on them to use "reasonable" precautions to protect the boat from damage. You can't simply untie it and push it out of the marina and hope it floats safely away.

No matter what it will be a messy situation.
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:09   #27
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Re: Can Marinas Turn a Boat Away When Seeking Safe Harbor?

down here they dont close marinas due to high winds--they close the port. they close a bay. they close the entire harbor. is the call of the capitania del puerto, who is a government agent
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:23   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post

Lawyers often write intimidating contract language to head off lawsuits not because they would win those lawsuits.

Once the marina unties the lines, the burden is on them to use "reasonable" precautions to protect the boat from damage. You can't simply untie it and push it out of the marina and hope it floats safely away.

No matter what it will be a messy situation.
Pretty sure I never said that anybody was dropping lines and pushing the boat out of the slip to set it adrift. At some point when a person enters into a contract aren't they obligated to follow the terms? If the terms are clearly spelled out, what's the problem with the policy? As I stated earlier, if one doesn't like the terms there is no obligation to enter into the contract. I'm not a lawyer but I've dealt with thousands of contracts. This seems like a really simple concept to me, once the emotion is removed. Stepping backward, the whole purpose is to protect the marina from damage. Do I keep my boat in a marina with those rules? Hell no!
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:25   #29
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Re: Can Marinas Turn a Boat Away When Seeking Safe Harbor?

From reading the comments around here, it sounds like a good reason to make sure your anchor system is setup properly and maybe even oversized.
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:48   #30
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Re: Can Marinas Turn a Boat Away When Seeking Safe Harbor?

this marina, as all in mexico demands liability insurance before docking here. before you try to dock in a marina in mexico it is a good idea to have purchased this from a company that has feet in mexico--- before you buy insurance, here, you CAN be turned away in the face of a named storm.
well in advance of summer, this particular marina sent word to all boats in anchorage situation that they will be available fro safe haven from named storms hitting this bay. they also advised us that insurance was mandatory, so no one had an excuse to not be insured by time summer arrived.
the cruisers here in summers are the ones who choose not to support the insurance lobby more than necessary --we are able to sail into furycame prone regions without threat of loss of coverage....this place is ok -- there is only one direction from which damage will occur no matter what--and that is from land, not from water, so is improbable to have this occur with enough punch to trash inside this lagoon.
as that is such an incredibly rare occurrence, i took my chances on summering in this sheltered lagoon with the marina tucked safely inside and out of the way of rushing water.
because we are so close to the formation zone of these beautiful storm formations, we donot get the usual punch from these storms here inside where we are sheltered--maybe even safe. even jova didnt punch this part of barra--destruction was to the bay side of the town, where seas hit without any protection. because of lattitude constraints and restrictions, only 3 cruisers have remained here for summer.
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