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Old 30-01-2006, 22:13   #31
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Well.. I'm betting its going to be the Espar deal. Those that have installed this type of a system, did you duct heat all around the boat? Or just one vent, say-- in the salon, and let it blow around from there?

Did you put the extra hole in the fuel tank? Or install the secondary pump/regulator so you could plumb off the engine fuel line?

Last fall we rented a Benetau with a Wabasto hydronic heat system. It was loud inside and outside. It did sound like a jet engine in the marina. Kinda' embarrasing being the one with the heat runnin' all night keepin' everyone up. The Espar comes with a muffler for the exhaust. Hoping this'll help.

Thanks again for all the comments. I appreciate it more n' you could know.

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Old 31-01-2006, 08:36   #32
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We've a Wabasco Heater

......and it seems equally as effective as the Eberspacher we had before.

Never had a problem with either, both run of a whisper of diesel fuel, the more modern Wabasco better as it gives a flashing code to let you know what is happening. The loudest noise we have is also of exhaust gasses being driven out but we've not heard any difference twix the two even outside

We chose to duct our heat around. I think we've a total of four outlets into differing areas.

Both manufacturers have sold thousands of these units to truckers as well as boaters - so today they are about as reliable as one can make them. And a bit lighter than a wood stove.

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Old 31-01-2006, 15:24   #33
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Espar Is Good

Scamper is a C&C 34 I keep in Tacoma. It came from the previous owner with an Espar that is probably as old as the boat (1981) and has not needed anything for at least the last 4 years.

The unit is mounted in the engine compartment and has one outlet under the nav statiion. This one outlet is aimed just right so that it moves heat all the way through the boat to the forecabin if the door is open. The thermostat is a huge plus as well.

It uses about 5 amps for around 30 seconds on the first, cold, start, then takes less than an amp to run the blower after the burner is going. Warm starts use the 5 amp startup only for 10 seconds or so. Diesel consumption is so low as to be hard to measure.

It is quiet from inside and just barely noticeable from outside. It emits a low rumble that is not unpleasant.

I've had boats with bulkhead mounted heaters, propane, diesel, and wood, and, if you want to go sailing and not twiddle with a heater the Espar is far superior (IMHO).
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Old 31-01-2006, 18:56   #34
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Re: We've a Wabasco Heater

Quote:
swagman once whispered in the wind:
And a bit lighter than a wood stove.

Cheers

JOHN
True... they weigh 20lbs less than my Little Cod woodstove. Still have to say, paying $0 for heat this winter has been great on the budget....

All these folks are right though.. diesel can't be beat if you want to flip a switch and be warm without any effort at all.
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Old 31-01-2006, 20:02   #35
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Some people paint over all their bright work, and some buy boats because there is no wood to maintain. It is the same thing. Cutting wood is work to some, and a push button system is the best there is. For me, cutting firewood is a pleasure, just like varnishing. I may grumble a bit while I am doing it, but afterwards, I can sit back and appreciate the accomplishment. Going ashore on a wood gathering trip can be allot of fun. The benefits of wood heat far out weight any downside for me. And my Dickenson wood stove is quite a bit lighter than the similar diesel unit.
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Old 31-01-2006, 21:56   #36
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Actually JohnWms hit it on the head. I'd like to go sailing and not think about how the cabin is getting heat or if it needs attention. I forsee being swamped with navigation, kid swatting, catching the dog as it attempts to excape overboard etc etc. Push button sounds great at this time.

Thanks again for the replies!

-jim lee
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Old 31-01-2006, 23:38   #37
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I've got to admit that sometimes it would be nice to just push the button, and have the hydraulic winch trim the sail, and push the button on the plotter and have it tell me where I'm going, and where I've been, but my favorite boat is still the one with no systems. I still remember how to use a sextent, and don't mind pumping the manual bilge a couple of minutes a day.
And now for something completely different... How much power do those diesel blower systems draw?
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Old 31-01-2006, 23:57   #38
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And now for something completely different. - Monty Python. Good movie!!

Well, we just happen to live in a push button world. And that has made lives more easier to do lots of things. Verses the old fashion way of doing things. With your hands and legs?
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Old 01-02-2006, 06:04   #39
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Quote:
[i]Kai Nui - How much power do those diesel blower systems draw? [/B]
Hi Kai Nui

It's only an educated guess as manual with detail is on the boat - but I'd assume 5 amps in hot coil pre-heat / starter stage (say 3 minutes) and possibly .5 amps to operate the small fan once fired.

Cheers
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Old 01-02-2006, 10:30   #40
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depends on the manufacturer and the model. Here are some figures for the D2 Airtronic :
Fuel Diesel or Paraffin
Voltage volts 12 or 24
Heat settings Power High Medium Low
Heat flow watts 2200 1800 1200 850
Air throughput m3/h 87 72 50 35
Electrical consumption 34 23 12 8
watts
Fuel consumption 0.28 0.23 0.15 0.10
l/hr
Weight kg 2.7


sorry its not listed properly, but supposed to be working.
more detail for different models here
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Old 01-02-2006, 10:48   #41
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More of a question rather than response, but what about Paloma instant h. w. heaters. I saw one recently on a boat as an option for providing hot water. I know they are used on land as a way to set up a separate zone of heat for bathrooms or other smaller areas when conventional system will not satisfy needs. Anyone know about Paloma ?
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Old 01-02-2006, 11:22   #42
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power consumption is dependent on which manufacturer and which model.

Here are some details of the Eberspacher D2 Airtronic:

Fuel Diesel or Paraffin
Voltage volts 12 or 24
Heat settings Power High Medium Low
Heat flow watts 2200 1800 1200 850
Air throughput m3/h 87 72 50 35
Electrical consumption 34 23 12 8
watts
Fuel consumption 0.28 0.23 0.15 0.10
l/hr
Weight kg 2.7

Details of other models from here

note eberspacher = UK espar!!!!!
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Old 01-02-2006, 13:53   #43
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Surprisingly efficient. I would imagine that the unit would be on low most of the time unless you are hanging around Anchorage Ak, so this really does sound like a good option. I have heard one of this type of unit run, and it was too loud for my comfort, but I would imagine the newer ones address that problem as well.

Capt Lar, I looked into all of the info I could find on tankless water heaters for my trimaran. I do not recall any specifics on the brand you mentioned, but in general, I would not consider a propane unit personally, but I know people who have them and like them fine. The electric units draw way too much current for the degree that the are able to heat the water. For boat use, you would use up your house bank just taking a shower with most of these units. I finally gave up and bought a 6 gallon as I have for all of my boats over the years. I can heat sufficient water for a days use with an hour of running the engine, while at the same time, recharging my batteries, and even motoring through the calm that is so common in our area at night and early mornings.
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Old 02-02-2006, 00:14   #44
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For better or worse, I ordered the Espar system tonight. Fingers crossed I can install it without destroying the boat or going completly bananas.

Well see..

Thanks again everyone!

-jim lee
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Old 02-02-2006, 12:25   #45
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Couple of pointers about installation from personal experience.
If you are installing a long vent trunk, buy thinsulate sock which fits over the trunk and insulates it. makes a big difference in amount of heat. Buy bi-mettallic hole cutters for the correct OUTSIDE diameter of the trunking!
If you are running the diesel from the main tank, it is a good idea to filter the contents of the tank thoroughly, use fuel set or soltran, and filter all the fuel that goes into the tank each time (I use a "smart" funnel which will even stop water going into the tank.
I isolated the heater from the boat by putting felt pads between the heater stand and the bulkhead. I installed the pump as far away as possible and also noise proofed it, finally I was concerned about the noise of combustion air going into the heater, so cut the pipeshort (its about 28 mm diameter) and connected it to rectangular plastic piping normally used in kitchen extractor fans. This meant that the air speed in the trunk was considerably reduced, and thus also the noise. I vent the exhaust out between the hulls on my cat, so that avoids any problems with alongside boats, and also helps to reduce the noise from that end.
I have the D4 Airtronic and have 5 outlets - 1 saloon, i main cabin (very nice)1 second cabin, 1 galley, and 1 chart table. It does struggle a bit to manage all five cause I didnt put anything into the system to balance the output.


Another thread asked about the Paloma water heater - In UK these are no longer obtainable, and nor are the spares. I threw one away a couple of years ago and purchased a rinnai instead. Its smaller, and provides a better heat. I use it for a shower, and also pump hot water to both sides of the boat!
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