Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-11-2019, 17:18   #1
Registered User
 
SVKaruna's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Kingston, ON
Boat: Niagara 35 Encore
Posts: 28
Buying my first boat- exhilarating and agonizing!

I will give a brief overview of my situation. I live in Kingston, ON. I've been researching blue water boats for about 4 years. My dream is to sail in the ocean, to distant shores. At the moment, I'm committed to family which means sailing on Lake Ontario. There is more variety, and some well equipped cruising boats, on the Eastern seaboard of the U.S. Ideally, I will buy a boat on Lake Ontario. Pacific Seacraft 34 and Niagara Mark 35 are top contenders currently for sale in the area. I vacillate between keep it simple and within budget (Niagara '79)and get the boat you really want and not as old (PSC '90 $20,000.00 over budget). Of course both would involve investing in offshore gear. Third option is to be patient and wait for other types of blue water boats to enter the market.
Thanks in advance to any words of wisdom you may impart!


Lisa
__________________

__________________
" Whatever you can do or dream, you can begin it. Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it. Begin it now!" Goethe
SVKaruna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 17:31   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: New Zealand
Boat: 50’ Bavaria
Posts: 1,342
Re: Buying my first boat- exhilarating and agonizing!

Buy the boat you need now, cheap, for lake sailing. You will know so much more about what you really want when it comes time to set off for distant shores without kids, and you can keep an eye out for the right boat to come along while you’re waiting.
__________________

Tillsbury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 17:48   #3
Registered User
 
S/V Illusion's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lakewood Ranch, FLORIDA
Boat: Alden 50, Sarasota, Florida
Posts: 2,237
Re: Buying my first boat- exhilarating and agonizing!

The romantic notion of many dreamers typically degenerates into reality pretty fast after a short time, some tedious maintenance, unanticipated repair costs, seasickness, being cold, hot, tired, bored, etc...

Find a decent cheap boat and see if your dream fits the reality.
S/V Illusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 18:54   #4
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Whitby, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 3,961
Re: Buying my first boat- exhilarating and agonizing!

Given the vintage you are looking at, a 30yr. old fresh water water will be much less grief than a 30yr. old salt water boat.
__________________
That hysterical laughter you hear as you sail a way in your "new" boat ..... is the seller.
boatpoker is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2019, 19:05   #5
KTP
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 369
Re: Buying my first boat- exhilarating and agonizing!

What is your budget on the Pacific Seacraft 34?

I ask because we recently (a bit over a year and half ago) bought a 1989 PSC34 and boy do these boats take a lot of work to fix up.

We had to cut off the old quadrant to access the rudder packing gland so I could repack it (it was leaking like a water fountain every time you motored or a following wave hit you). The steering cable was found to be almost severed on one side about a foot from where it attaches to the quadrant, so we replaced that unit (which is a stainless chain with the steel cables attached) in addition to a new Edson quadrant. About $1300 there and A LOT of work.

Be sure to have someone about 4 feet high to do all the work too, or remove the whole engine like we did.

We replaced the chainplates, which are quite easy to replace (since they are external, unlike some boats which fiberglass them in). The problem is they are expensive! A bit over $2000 from PSC with the polished bolts. The old chainplates really looked great after we pulled them but everyone says replace your chainplates at 10 to 15 years and these were 30 years old so...

I could go on and on. At one point I was really wishing we had just ponied up $340,000 or whatever for a 2019 PSC34
KTP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2019, 05:32   #6
Registered User
 
SVKaruna's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Kingston, ON
Boat: Niagara 35 Encore
Posts: 28
Re: Buying my first boat- exhilarating and agonizing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Illusion View Post
The romantic notion of many dreamers typically degenerates into reality pretty fast after a short time, some tedious maintenance, unanticipated repair costs, seasickness, being cold, hot, tired, bored, etc...

Find a decent cheap boat and see if your dream fits the reality.

This really makes sense. I need to be more flexible with the idea that I will buy the "one"boat closest to meeting my criteria, without having to buy another down the road. I grew up sailing and cruising on Lake Michigan. Having good memories of that time may match the reality of being captain of my own sv many decades later.
__________________
" Whatever you can do or dream, you can begin it. Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it. Begin it now!" Goethe
SVKaruna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2019, 05:41   #7
Registered User
 
SVKaruna's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Kingston, ON
Boat: Niagara 35 Encore
Posts: 28
Re: Buying my first boat- exhilarating and agonizing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tillsbury View Post
Buy the boat you need now, cheap, for lake sailing. You will know so much more about what you really want when it comes time to set off for distant shores without kids, and you can keep an eye out for the right boat to come along while you’re waiting.

Sound advice. I plan on getting 3 levels of ASA certification next spring. I hope to buy a boat this winter. It makes sense to get my sea legs on Lake Ontario. When the time comes for ocean sailing, I will have talked to folks (and sailed on) a different boats. Doing, in addition to researching!
__________________
" Whatever you can do or dream, you can begin it. Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it. Begin it now!" Goethe
SVKaruna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2019, 05:53   #8
Registered User
 
SVKaruna's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Kingston, ON
Boat: Niagara 35 Encore
Posts: 28
Re: Buying my first boat- exhilarating and agonizing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KTP View Post
What is your budget on the Pacific Seacraft 34?

I ask because we recently (a bit over a year and half ago) bought a 1989 PSC34 and boy do these boats take a lot of work to fix up.

We had to cut off the old quadrant to access the rudder packing gland so I could repack it (it was leaking like a water fountain every time you motored or a following wave hit you). The steering cable was found to be almost severed on one side about a foot from where it attaches to the quadrant, so we replaced that unit (which is a stainless chain with the steel cables attached) in addition to a new Edson quadrant. About $1300 there and A LOT of work.

Be sure to have someone about 4 feet high to do all the work too, or remove the whole engine like we did.

We replaced the chainplates, which are quite easy to replace (since they are external, unlike some boats which fiberglass them in). The problem is they are expensive! A bit over $2000 from PSC with the polished bolts. The old chainplates really looked great after we pulled them but everyone says replace your chainplates at 10 to 15 years and these were 30 years old so...

I could go on and on. At one point I was really wishing we had just ponied up $340,000 or whatever for a 2019 PSC34

Yikes! Thanks for giving me a reality check! Your experience is the reason why I need to budget for ongoing repair work. A given with an old boat. I don't have the resources to spend hundreds of thousands on a 'newer' boat.
The PSC is $80,000 U.S. My budget is about $60,000. U.S. I can spend more, but I think it's smart to wait. As Tillsbury said, sail now on a cheaper boat.
__________________
" Whatever you can do or dream, you can begin it. Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it. Begin it now!" Goethe
SVKaruna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2019, 05:54   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Bristol 27
Posts: 5,827
Re: Buying my first boat- exhilarating and agonizing!

Most any old boat will work on Lake Ontario that is in decent shape.

The thing is though to get something now and start sailing and getting experience.

Here's a list of good, strong, older boats perfect for a beginner that can also crossed oceans with the right upgrades/maintenance

There's also some very good advice here from a guy that has circumnavigated twice on a 28' boat

Some of these boats can be bought and made ready for sailing long distance for $10,000 - $15,000 plus or minus a few dollars depending

https://atomvoyages.com/planning/goo...oats-list.html
thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2019, 11:09   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Boat: Lord Nelson 41
Posts: 53
Re: Buying my first boat- exhilarating and agonizing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVKaruna View Post
I will give a brief overview of my situation. I live in Kingston, ON. I've been researching blue water boats for about 4 years. My dream is to sail in the ocean, to distant shores. At the moment, I'm committed to family which means sailing on Lake Ontario. There is more variety, and some well equipped cruising boats, on the Eastern seaboard of the U.S. Ideally, I will buy a boat on Lake Ontario. Pacific Seacraft 34 and Niagara Mark 35 are top contenders currently for sale in the area. I vacillate between keep it simple and within budget (Niagara '79)and get the boat you really want and not as old (PSC '90 $20,000.00 over budget). Of course both would involve investing in offshore gear. Third option is to be patient and wait for other types of blue water boats to enter the market.
Thanks in advance to any words of wisdom you may impart!


Lisa

A different suggestion, rather than purchase, repair, and upgrade a boat now, work on your intended use. Gather some current experience that is likely different than your younger experience. There are lots of owners looking for crew for offshore passages, I am generally one ! and are williing to share that experience, provide food, and instruction on various advantages and disadvantages of their boat.Sailing on any lake, while it may seem (and occasionally is) simular to ocean sailing, can be quite different. The first time you are pooped offshore, and are pooped again, one develops a respectful understanding.
Go sail where and how you wish to sail before you purchase a boat.
Telemark43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2019, 11:22   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Scotland
Boat: 42ft Moody Ketch
Posts: 391
Re: Buying my first boat- exhilarating and agonizing!

As in life there are always alternatives , different views and people that have done it and are not the dreamers ,
do not get bogged down with these figures of tens of thousands dollars to do up an old boat , there are many older boats out their with careful owners that have spend their life doing them up and looking after then]
there is aslo second hand market for anything you want on a boat, plenty of youtube channels showing you how to re rig a boat to fitting a fuse

Do not be put off to those that seek perfection and open their wallets and let their dollars fly out,
I bought a 40 year old boat ,never had osmosis , rig replaced through the years , same engine 5600 hours starts firsts time,
and the usual second hand electronics that do not need replaced because they work
follow your dream I am , set sail in 3 years after the wife finishes off her work commitments , and go go go , no dreams
Bough the boat 2 years ago read and watched and learned some more and have turned it into a dream boat if you have the will it will happen good luck
tarian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2019, 18:11   #12
Registered User
 
SVKaruna's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Kingston, ON
Boat: Niagara 35 Encore
Posts: 28
Re: Buying my first boat- exhilarating and agonizing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Telemark43 View Post
A different suggestion, rather than purchase, repair, and upgrade a boat now, work on your intended use. Gather some current experience that is likely different than your younger experience. There are lots of owners looking for crew for offshore passages, I am generally one ! and are williing to share that experience, provide food, and instruction on various advantages and disadvantages of their boat.Sailing on any lake, while it may seem (and occasionally is) simular to ocean sailing, can be quite different. The first time you are pooped offshore, and are pooped again, one develops a respectful understanding.
Go sail where and how you wish to sail before you purchase a boat.

You make a good point. Recently I looked into signing up for an offshore passage from New York to Bermuda. Both the captain and I decided I was a little too 'green', not having had any ocean experience. I still plan on looking into crewing aboard a yacht on the ocean, after I complete ASA certifications next spring.

Ideally, I hope to be crewing and encountering a storm system with big winds and swells. And where I do night watches (with someone).


I also feel time spent sailing all summer on my own boat, while learning about and working on the various systems, will be invaluable.
__________________
" Whatever you can do or dream, you can begin it. Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it. Begin it now!" Goethe
SVKaruna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2019, 18:22   #13
Registered User
 
SVKaruna's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Kingston, ON
Boat: Niagara 35 Encore
Posts: 28
Re: Buying my first boat- exhilarating and agonizing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarian View Post
As in life there are always alternatives , different views and people that have done it and are not the dreamers ,
do not get bogged down with these figures of tens of thousands dollars to do up an old boat , there are many older boats out their with careful owners that have spend their life doing them up and looking after then]
there is aslo second hand market for anything you want on a boat, plenty of youtube channels showing you how to re rig a boat to fitting a fuse

Do not be put off to those that seek perfection and open their wallets and let their dollars fly out,
I bought a 40 year old boat ,never had osmosis , rig replaced through the years , same engine 5600 hours starts firsts time,
and the usual second hand electronics that do not need replaced because they work
follow your dream I am , set sail in 3 years after the wife finishes off her work commitments , and go go go , no dreams
Bough the boat 2 years ago read and watched and learned some more and have turned it into a dream boat if you have the will it will happen good luck

I have the will!

Thank you for your inspiring words and encouragement. Buying an old boat is a crap shoot. With one or two previous owners who've kept up with repairs and upgrades, and a survey, maybe less of a crap shoot.
I'm glad your sv has turned into a dream boat. All the best to you and your wife casting off the lines in a few years!
__________________
" Whatever you can do or dream, you can begin it. Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it. Begin it now!" Goethe
SVKaruna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2019, 18:32   #14
Registered User
 
SVKaruna's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Kingston, ON
Boat: Niagara 35 Encore
Posts: 28
Re: Buying my first boat- exhilarating and agonizing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
Most any old boat will work on Lake Ontario that is in decent shape.

The thing is though to get something now and start sailing and getting experience.

Here's a list of good, strong, older boats perfect for a beginner that can also crossed oceans with the right upgrades/maintenance

There's also some very good advice here from a guy that has circumnavigated twice on a 28' boat

Some of these boats can be bought and made ready for sailing long distance for $10,000 - $15,000 plus or minus a few dollars depending

https://atomvoyages.com/planning/goo...oats-list.html

Thank you! This looks like a great resource.
__________________
" Whatever you can do or dream, you can begin it. Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it. Begin it now!" Goethe
SVKaruna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2019, 18:33   #15
Registered User
 
hamburking's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kingston Ont Canada
Boat: Looking for my next boat!
Posts: 2,893
Re: Buying my first boat- exhilarating and agonizing!

This is a global forum. I've seen posts from New Zealand, Australia, all over Europe and the USA, and even Asia. And here is a post from Kingston ON...my home town. What a small world it really is!!!

Even more to my amazement, is that I am in the same situation. I'm looking for my next boat. Not sure if I should get a solid old boat (for cheap) to have fun on Lake Ontario until my kids go off to college or get that blue water boat now, and start getting ready.

FWIW, I've decided to get something for Lake Ontario. Cheap-ish. You never know what the future holds, and there will always be more boats for sale when I'm actually ready to head south.

If SVKaruna would like to PM me, I've been looking at boats all summer and would be happy to share info.

For those of you still reading this far, here is the boat I'm seriously considering for Lake Ontario: https://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details...dId=1451599048

AND here is the boat more suited to heading south: https://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details...dId=1461696951

Notice a HUGE difference in price.

And this one keeps haunting me, because its a good solid boat at a great price: https://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details...dId=1435085495

And finally, this legendary local C&C41 is for sale for around $20,000 (cdn), located at KYC: https://www.harrisellis.com/Listings...searchtype=buy

So many boats...so hard to choose....
__________________

hamburking is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
boat, buying

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Got my first boat and made my first trip.... riki Multihull Sailboats 4 29-03-2019 06:21
Introduction and advice - buying first new, old boat Alisonkls Monohull Sailboats 9 07-10-2015 16:41
First boat, first post, first adventure. northoceanbeach Pacific & South China Sea 5 28-05-2013 19:05
First Boat and First Project - Advice welcome Minisail Monohull Sailboats 3 20-06-2012 12:03
Help! We Are Buying Our First Boat, and Don't Want to Make a Mistake... cyberkitty Monohull Sailboats 29 13-04-2010 08:56

Advertise Here


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:56.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.