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Old 20-03-2016, 15:18   #61
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Re: Buying boat long distance through Broker

Thanks KennyA, sounds like a really nice boat. I think we're looking for something with a bit more sailing performance though.

I've got an ad up in the classifieds that describes the kind of boat we're looking for.
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Old 20-03-2016, 15:51   #62
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Re: Buying boat long distance through Broker

Ok an good luck with your search. I just put it out there. It's not a standard morgan it has been modified (with the help of Charlie morgan) and now goes into the wind between 30 to 35 degrees and 15kts of wind will do 7.5kts and 20 to 25 degrees heel. Like I said good luck and fair winds to you. someone else might want it who is reading this .

Sent from my VS985 4G using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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Old 20-03-2016, 15:55   #63
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Re: Buying boat long distance through Broker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid at SailAway View Post
Do you really think you're doing this or any other buyer a service when you make a blanket statement like that?? As a very responsive broker who genuinely cares about his clients I take great offense to that statement. I'm sure that whatever work you did or do, that there are some bad apples floating in your barrel as well. Shall we lump you all together?

Ok, off the soap box and back to musher...

You really need to find a good buyers broker to protect your interests in any deal and to hammer away at any less then ethical sellers or brokers. My advice to you would have been, first, to forget the old survey, it's worth nothing. If you were close to making an offer I would have located a surveyor to do what I call a pre-survey. The surveyor spends a few hours going over the boat and taking pictures in order to get a general idea of condition. Based on this "right now" info, you can now make an informed decision on whether to proceed further. If the pre-survey stinks, you just spent a couple of hundred bucks but saved yourself a plane ticket.

If you really, really wanted the boat then I would have had you get the boat under contract first in order to protect yourself from another buyer while you were getting the pre-survey. Of course, there would be contingencies in the contract based on pre-survey and full survey results. If the pre-survey is bad you just reject the boat and go on to next one. This is my standard advice for clients who are too far away to personally inspect the boat they are interested in. In any case, find a good broker. If you have any questions, fire away...
I'm sure there are good and bad brokers. Unfortunately ethical sales people seem to get the short und of the stick. Bull **** artists seem to do well and then move on.
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Old 28-03-2016, 09:24   #64
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Re: Buying boat long distance through Broker

You need to see the boat, it is as simple as that. Don't trust anyone when it comes to buying a boat.
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Old 28-03-2016, 10:30   #65
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Re: Buying boat long distance through Broker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid at SailAway View Post
Do you really think you're doing this or any other buyer a service when you make a blanket statement like that?? As a very responsive broker who genuinely cares about his clients I take great offense to that statement. I'm sure that whatever work you did or do, that there are some bad apples floating in your barrel as well. Shall we lump you all together?

Ok, off the soap box and back to musher...

You really need to find a good buyers broker to protect your interests in any deal and to hammer away at any less then ethical sellers or brokers. My advice to you would have been, first, to forget the old survey, it's worth nothing. If you were close to making an offer I would have located a surveyor to do what I call a pre-survey. The surveyor spends a few hours going over the boat and taking pictures in order to get a general idea of condition. Based on this "right now" info, you can now make an informed decision on whether to proceed further. If the pre-survey stinks, you just spent a couple of hundred bucks but saved yourself a plane ticket.

If you really, really wanted the boat then I would have had you get the boat under contract first in order to protect yourself from another buyer while you were getting the pre-survey. Of course, there would be contingencies in the contract based on pre-survey and full survey results. If the pre-survey is bad you just reject the boat and go on to next one. This is my standard advice for clients who are too far away to personally inspect the boat they are interested in. In any case, find a good broker. If you have any questions, fire away...
In the sailboat world many self identify as "buyers" because they are "looking" but yet are years away from ever possibly having the money.

Those who are the quickest to be offended for not being treated as the special princess they believe themselves to be because they are "in the market" are usually the least qualified to buy.

There are thousands of reputable brokers. A charlatan doesn't usually last long in the industry. Repeat and referral business is the key to a long career and the crooks don't have that. Of course most successful brokers don't stay in the 20k - 50k price range as it is very difficult to make a decent living on those small commissions.

Love it when I read the "all brokers suck" comments from those who don't own boats or have never used a broker themselves.

However, this being the internet anybody with a keyboard can be anybody they choose to be for how ever long they choose to be.
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Old 28-03-2016, 10:46   #66
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Re: Buying boat long distance through Broker

"In the sailboat world many self identify as "buyers" because they are "looking" but yet are years away from ever possibly having the money.

Those who are the quickest to be offended for not being treated as the special princess they believe themselves to be because they are "in the market" are usually the least qualified to buy."

While I think those people are out there, ie: They may look forever and never actually buy a boat. I also think a sales person has to realize that often many people don't do things per a plan. Seldom have I bought a boat or a car with a plan. I see something, and suddenly I have to have it! When I bought my Catamaran, I had a 47 foot mono that I hadn't even had that long. I happened upon the cat at a dock/broker. I looked, I went home to the PNW, and 3 months later I was a two boat owner!
The product sells itself to the right buyer, as a sales person, you have to give the buyer the opportunity to discover it. If that's not your attitude, you should get out of sales.
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Old 28-03-2016, 11:29   #67
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Re: Buying boat long distance through Broker

How a brokered boat sale works may seem obvious to folks who are regularly involved with buying and selling (larger) boats, but the process itself isn't really that obvious from the outside--hence the form of my original questions: "is this normal?" "were my requests legitimate?"

I can say with certainty that when I first spoke with this broker, my conception of how the offer process can work for the long distance buyer was deficient. Sid's description of how to use the offer to gain time to get additional information about the boat was exactly the sort of information I needed. I hesitated to make a written offer on this boat BECAUSE the broker was slow to answer my questions and help me get additional info. Using the offer process to lock down the seller and gather that information w/o the broker's help never occurred to me. I went into that conversation thinking it was the broker's job to tell me everything he knew about the boat and that the next step from that was traveling and survey.

In my particular example, I specifically told the broker I had no experience with brokered sales. He quickly ran me through the mechanics of making an offer, but did not take the step that Sid did in explaining the 'why' you do this or how it could help me work through the deal. For me, it would have made all the difference. I was ready to make an offer, I just couldn't figure out why the broker wasn't answering my questions. I was reluctant to invest $3K to find out the boat was no good. On the other hand I would have readily spent $300 to make the determination.

After reading Sid's comments, it seems to me that a large part of a broker's job should be educating the buyer about the process--not just the mechanics of it, but the why of it and how it can be used for the buyer. This is especially important for the long distance buyer.

I can see that a broker might have difficulty separating 'lookers' from 'buyers'. This is the reality of any sales job selling things that cost more than an ice cream cone. Seems to me a sales person just has to assume every 'looker' is a potential 'buyer'. Otherwise they end up running off folks like me.

the boat we're looking for...
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Old 21-04-2016, 09:45   #68
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Re: Buying boat long distance through Broker

Quote:
Originally Posted by musher View Post
Hi,
I'm in the process of considering the purchase of a boat that is advertised through a broker. This is my first experience dealing with a broker. My previous boats I've purchased directly from the owners.

I'm very interested in the boat, but it is thousands of miles away. I want to be pretty sure it's a candidate before making an offer, paying to travel, and engaging a surveyor.

The broker has told me that there was a survey done last year, but has so far declined to provide a copy to me. His explanation is that he didn't want me calling the surveyor and asking questions about it.

I encouraged him to redact the surveyor contact info and send it, but so far he has not done so.

I also asked for some additional photos. The broker has indicated that the photos were taken, but that it's very confusing/difficult for the owner and broker to figure out how to email them to me.

The broker also claims ignorance on many of the questions I've asked. Things like "does the boat have blisters or a history of blisters or any blister treatment". Many of my written questions have gone unanswered. The broker seems to just ignore the question. I get the impression the broker does not want to write any of his answers down.

Is this normal behavior from a broker, or should I be listening to the little alarm bells that are starting to go off?

I'm thinking about asking to speak directly with the owner. Would that be a legitimate request?

The boat is in the neighborhood of 50K if that makes any difference.
Trust your alarms. I used a broker a number of years ago and he was informative,professional and honest. As a result he got to sell a different boat for me and i recommended him to friends. Brokers are salespeople and if they are smart they treat everyone involved in the deal well and grow their image and business. Your guy doesn't sound like a pro.
I purchased a boat on the East Coast and brought it out here to California a year and a half ago. Dealing with the shippers and the shipper's brokers - now there is an adventure. At the end of the day I made a good deal with the owner but got soaked a bit by the shipper so it averaged out ok. I'm not sure I'd do it again but I am sailing a boat that I couldn't find out here and have loved for years from afar. Good luck on your search.
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Old 21-04-2016, 09:58   #69
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Re: Buying boat long distance through Broker

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailpower View Post
In the sailboat world many self identify as "buyers" because they are "looking" but yet are years away from ever possibly having the money.

Those who are the quickest to be offended for not being treated as the special princess they believe themselves to be because they are "in the market" are usually the least qualified to buy.

There are thousands of reputable brokers. A charlatan doesn't usually last long in the industry. Repeat and referral business is the key to a long career and the crooks don't have that. Of course most successful brokers don't stay in the 20k - 50k price range as it is very difficult to make a decent living on those small commissions.

Love it when I read the "all brokers suck" comments from those who don't own boats or have never used a broker themselves.

However, this being the internet anybody with a keyboard can be anybody they choose to be for how ever long they choose to be.
I'm currently selling a Pearson Triton and really missed a broker last Friday as I spent the entire morning waiting for a "very interested" potential buyer who had texted me the night before confirming our appointment but never showed or responded to calls or texts - so unbelievably rude.
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Old 21-04-2016, 10:21   #70
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Re: Buying boat long distance through Broker

Quote:
Originally Posted by musher View Post
Hi,
I'm in the process of considering the purchase of a boat that is advertised through a broker. This is my first experience dealing with a broker. My previous boats I've purchased directly from the owners.

I'm very interested in the boat, but it is thousands of miles away. I want to be pretty sure it's a candidate before making an offer, paying to travel, and engaging a surveyor.

The broker has told me that there was a survey done last year, but has so far declined to provide a copy to me. His explanation is that he didn't want me calling the surveyor and asking questions about it.

I encouraged him to redact the surveyor contact info and send it, but so far he has not done so.

I also asked for some additional photos. The broker has indicated that the photos were taken, but that it's very confusing/difficult for the owner and broker to figure out how to email them to me.

The broker also claims ignorance on many of the questions I've asked. Things like "does the boat have blisters or a history of blisters or any blister treatment". Many of my written questions have gone unanswered. The broker seems to just ignore the question. I get the impression the broker does not want to write any of his answers down.

Is this normal behavior from a broker, or should I be listening to the little alarm bells that are starting to go off?

I'm thinking about asking to speak directly with the owner. Would that be a legitimate request?

The boat is in the neighborhood of 50K if that makes any difference.
Not sure if anyone has brought this up yet, but of all the alarm bells ringing in this post, this is the loudest to me. It's 2016. If both the owner and broker can't figure out how to email photos, there is definitely something funky going on.
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Old 21-04-2016, 10:39   #71
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Re: Buying boat long distance through Broker

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
The product sells itself to the right buyer, as a sales person, you have to give the buyer the opportunity to discover it. If that's not your attitude, you should get out of sales.
Of course you give the buyer the opportunity but you also need to qualify the buyer as a buyer.

A good salesman learns time management and prioritizes his efforts. He needs to be able to determine who are immediate prospects and who might be longer term prospects. After that, disengage politely from the rest.

Sure there are impulse buyers. A good salesman should be able to figure that out from the above.

No system is foolproof but focusing on those who are buyers now or at some not to distant future is the key to success.
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Old 21-04-2016, 10:43   #72
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Re: Buying boat long distance through Broker

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Originally Posted by JFN View Post
I'm currently selling a Pearson Triton and really missed a broker last Friday as I spent the entire morning waiting for a "very interested" potential buyer who had texted me the night before confirming our appointment but never showed or responded to calls or texts - so unbelievably rude.
Yes it is.
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