Buying a 30-Footer

[sloopdogg]

Hello all!

I'm new to the site and happy to have found it!

I'm looking into a 1972 Morgan Out Island 30, a couple 70s pearson 30s, an 82 lipponcott 30, and a couple tartan 30s.

Any input here with any and all of these boats would be much appreciated.

one of the tartans, a 1978 has an Atomic 4 that was rebuild in "late 2009"
one of the pearsons, a 1971, has a "recently rebuilt" Volvo Penta 20 hp deisel


Danny

[Southern Star]

Hi Danny and welcome to the forum. The boats you are considering are similar in LOA, but are otherwise rather dissimilar. We would need to know where you plan on sailing and what you want out of your boat. For example, the Tartan 30's have much less accomodation, but would be much better/faster sailing boats than the Morgan. Furthermore, while there are significant advantages to a diesel in terms of safety/resistance to moisture (and 'rebuilt' engines are a plus), the condition of the hull/deck/rig/sails etc., are all hugely important.

Brad

[foggysail]

Why would you want to purchase such an old boat??? You're going to face a pile of uncertainties including possible insurance problems. Also mentioned was gasoline in an earlier post. Most boats in that era used Atomic 4's a good engine but heck, it does not cost that much more today to get diesel in a vintage sailboat.

I can comment on the Pearson but not the other two boats. Pearson 30 DOES NOT HAVE AN ANCHOR LOCKER! Not a problem if you don't own and think you won't ever need an anchor. Further the boat as I remember it was very spartan.

I owned a 30' Hunter sailboat for years. Great boat with amenities not found in most others in that vintage. Although it is/was a great boat, I would not recommend it. I would not recommend a 30' boat period unless you intend to use it for day sailing only.

Sure, somebody will come back telling aobut travelling the world for the last 50 years in a 30' or smaller boat. But again my advice is think bigger, 33 or even a 36. Get one that someone LOVED AND CARED FOR and added amenities such as up to date electronics with radar.

Been there, done that and these are just my thoughts!

Foggy

[sloopdogg]

Hi Brad, thanks for the response,

well I'm a coatal sailor currently in an O'day 22 mostly day sailing and looking to upgrade and venture further. Cape cod and local islands, long island sound and then maybe further as my experience and comfort level grow. The admiral seems to want a faster boat and is willing to sacrifice some creature comfort for speed, she says. I may try and do some club racing to further my sailing skills. thats not all that importand though, especially with a handicap system.

So, I am gathering all those details now.

The Morgan seems to have been well cared for but, aging sails. I haven't actually seen it yet so that is current owners claims. He also claims he had the sails professionally cared for each season. the photos look great.

One of the pearsons a 78 seemed very solid as I found no soft spots and it seemed very dry and no water stains on the inside. The sheats, halyards and all the other lines seemed pretty old and tattered and boat is generally messy. this owner is not the tidy sort so I imagine maintenance was not high on his list of things to do. The atomic 4 started and didn't make any obvious noises. I think this guy only owned the boat for 2 years (his claim) and before that it appears to have been well maintained. I kind of feel i need to get the boat away from the current owner to save it. However, it will need new standing rigging, all new lines, probably an engine rebuild. It does however come with an inflatable w/a 15 hp engine. They have been neglected too it appears. the 15hp outborard is in a wheelbarrow, on its side burried in the very messy garage. He claims he bought the inflatable and outboard new 2 years ago at westmarine. I have caught the guy in so many lies already I can't believe a word he says and need to consider this boat as if were a derelict with no history available. again it seems very solid.

The lippencott looks well maintained. However, I found about a 1/2" hole drilled into the hull about a foot or so above the water line and about 2 feet back from the bow...that caused concern. Haven't heard back from owner yet only saw it on the hard at a marina.

78 tarton looks beautiful but, again on the hard all locked up. Teak needs redone, but then again most boats this age do.

Haven't seen either of the boats with the rebuilt engines.

one is the Pearson P-30 with the Updated Volvo Diesel. I heard back from the yacht broker who just said it is still covered and needs a "good cleaning." does anyone know how this translates in honest terms? I asked aboout veiwing it and have yet to hear back.

I think that is all i have for now.
Danny

[sloopdogg]

hey foggy,

well, money would be the short answer. These boats are all available for around 10,000 or less. I figure I'll end up putting 5 0r 6 more in and end up with a pretty nice boat. for 16,000.

How much do you think I would have to spend to get the kind of boat your talking about and how old do you think I can get away with. I know it is your opinion but, I am interested in all points of view.

I think some of your questions are answered in my last post.

Danny

[4arch]

I have a Lippincott 30 1982. The hole on the port side above the waterline near the bow is the drain for the anchor locker.

[sloopdogg]

Originally Posted by 4arch

I have a Lippincott 30 1982. The hole on the port side above the waterline near the bow is the drain for the anchor locker.

If thats true, thats horrible. It looks like some just walked up with a drill and popped a hole in there. Seem like a good place for warer to cause delamination.

[4arch]

Originally Posted by sloopdogg

If thats true, thats horrible. It looks like some just walked up with a drill and popped a hole in there. Seem like a good place for warer to cause delamination.

I have not had any problems with delamination at the anchor locker drain. I think the idea was that it would be less noticeable aesthetically than a plastic or bronze thru-hull. The holding tank vent was done in the same way higher up and further aft on the port side. If it bothers you that much, I don't see why the hole couldn't be drilled larger and a "proper" thru-hull installed. But it's certainly not "horrible" and wouldn't keep me from considering the boat.

[sloopdogg]

4arch,

thanks for the info. Do you have a lippencott? I would love to hear more aboout them. From what I've read there well built. How do they sail?

Also, are you in architecture?

[SkiprJohn]

Don't be put off by older boats but try to find one that has had rigging updates and good care. Anchor lockers are not important in my point of view. Chain lockers are important. If you just have to have an anchor locker then build one. I think a diesel engine is a big plus.
kind regards,

[4arch]

Originally Posted by sloopdogg

4arch,

thanks for the info. Do you have a lippencott? I would love to hear more aboout them. From what I've read there well built. How do they sail?

I have a 1982 Lippincott 30. I have found it to be of above average build quality and I've been extremely happy with how well it sails. I've out-pointed and outrun other 30 footers of similar vintage/design. The sailing is very well-balanced at the helm without a lot of excessive weather helm. Downwind performance is not wonderful without a spin but that is not unusual for racer/cruisers of that vintage. The interior woodwork and accommodations are quite nice. Overall I've been very happy. I also believe the L30 came only with a diesel engine...no A4's.

Originally Posted by sloopdogg

Also, are you in architecture?

That I am!

[foggysail]

Originally Posted by sloopdogg

hey foggy,

well, money would be the short answer. These boats are all available for around 10,000 or less. I figure I'll end up putting 5 0r 6 more in and end up with a pretty nice boat. for 16,000.

How much do you think I would have to spend to get the kind of boat your talking about and how old do you think I can get away with. I know it is your opinion but, I am interested in all points of view.

I think some of your questions are answered in my last post.

Danny

Danny-- I was not trying to pee on your parade. A boat purchase is a luxury for most people, it is not a necessity. It therefore should be something you and your family will enjoy doing together.

A 30' boat looks enormous on the hard! It will however look realistically small in the water. I cannot count the number of times I was out in our reliable Hunter wishing I had a 37 Hunter instead of my 30'. We keep our baot in Fairhaven and go to many of the places you mentioned in your post. I will tell you, Buzards Bay can be a challenge especially in a 30. A larger boat is easier to handle beating into a 25K+ wind and 3-4' chop. There is great room for amenities on a larger boat; creature comforts aboard a boat are welcomed after beating for hours in crappy weather.

What can you purchase for under 20K? I cannot be specific because I am not in that market but there are loads of used boats out there. I mentioned the Pearson lacked anchor lockers. Somebody champed that anchor lockers are not needed but chain lockers are. Well, the Hunter I owned called the chain locker an anchor locker!!! And yse, I did keep a 44# Bruce on a bow roller so I did not need an anchor locker BUT I DID USE what Hunter at that time called an anchor locker to store needed rode. Nice not to get hung up on words.

A purchase of 10K+ on anything for most of us, especially if it is not financed is a considerable sum of money. My advice for earlier still stands. I will add to that of earlier to take your time!!!!! We are nearing the end of season here in Massachusetts. There are numerous boats on the market and more coming. Be fussy, do not be over anxious in front of any seller.

You could own this purchase for many years. And remember, money talks but with a limited vocabulary. It only knows how to say "GOODBYE!"


Foggy

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by sloopdogg

Hello all!

I'm new to the site and happy to have found it!

I'm looking into a 1972 Morgan Out Island 30, a couple 70s pearson 30s, an 82 lipponcott 30, and a couple tartan 30s.

Any input here with any and all of these boats would be much appreciated.

one of the tartans, a 1978 has an Atomic 4 that was rebuild in "late 2009"
one of the pearsons, a 1971, has a "recently rebuilt" Volvo Penta 20 hp deisel


Danny

The Out Island Line (The are 7 or so basic models with variations making 15 or so reasonably distinct boats) was designed specifically for the charter trade in the Carribbean (sp?). They are well built and have voluminous accomodations but are undercanvassed for their weight and the hulls are optimised for accomadations to the detriment of speed and pointing.

If you don't already know about it try SailboatData.com - sailboat database with specifications, drawings and photos, more than 8000 listings which has lots of info on lots of boats.

Atomic 4. Yeah, it's gas, less safe than diesel, but not dangerous per se, just less safe. It was designed specifically as a marine engine rather than being converted from land use which explains why so many of them are out there (20k or so still in use). I am not commenting about marine gas engines in general, just the Atomic4.

In general it will get about 55-60% the fuel economy of a diesel at cruising speeds (not flat out). It will have more power than you can really use until the boat gets to about 35' or so. It will be a lot happier than a diesel operating at lower power settings.

Moneywise repowering is so expensive it would be comparable to decades worth of the extra fuel used due to the lower economy so I would keep the A4 unless:
1) It was dead (make sure the surveyor checks cylinder pressure), in which case it would be a good bargaining tool for lowering the price
2) Going offshore in which case I seriously consider repowering in order to have a new engine on-board, and to trade engine weight for a larger fuel tank and economy which could perhaps double my range without any change in carried weight.
3) you or the Admiral were just not comfortable with gas (in which case how do you feel about propane for the stove, and the outboard for the dinghy?).

If you are going to keep it make sure there is a bilge blower that draws thru a duct from the bottom of the bilge and exhausts overboard and switches on with the key or from a switch next to the key. Run the blower for 5min then sniff before starting.

The best upgrade I know of for the A4 is to convert to fresh-water cooling rather from raw water which will help longevity and efficiency. Some tweeking of the thermostat may be needed.

The next upgrade would be to go to electronic ignition which will make the engine somewhat less suseptible to damp. This is generally, but not universally, considered to be a worthwhile upgrade.

There is one or more makers that offer plastic props which offer somewhat better economy at cruising speeds and a bit more umph at max throttle. The prop deforms slightly under high load to a slightly better pitch. At least 1 maker offers a standard prop for direct drive A4's.

These 3 upgrades will set you back about $1k.

Have you considered the Cal29, Cal28 or Ranger29 boats?

[sloopdogg]

Alright, We're getting some great info here.

I've just found a 1976 Irwin 33-2 for real cheap I may look at. Any input on one of them.

It is funny, I started my quest thinking about a 26-27 footer and found them not be a big enough jump for me. So I then stated looking at 30 footers as there are lots avilable. Now I am seriously considering a larger boat again for a few reasons.

1. it is a serious buyers market right now.
2. I'd like to get a boat and keep it for a long time and not feel the need to upsize again so quickly only to have my haed work of fixing it go to the next owner. I am completely anal and like things to be nice, neat, clean and perfectly functioning.
3. Foggy makes a good point about buzzards bay and the whole creature comforts thing.

So I'm still going to look at the rest of the 30s I have lined up and that lippencott has me intrigued. The Irwin is going way cheap but the photos show a boat in need of, at least, TLC.

It seems it will take me some time but, I was hoping to get something before my home marina closes so I could sail it home and have them pull it and store it for me this coming winter. Giving me a chance to have it ready for spring. Although, the lippincott and a tartan are at a marina no further away than my home marina so I could leave those there for the winter I'm sure.

Please, keep the advice coming and suggestions for boats!

Danny

[Adelie]

In the 30' range
Cascade 29

Bigger
Ranger 33
Cal 34
Cascade 36
Ranger 37
Columbia 34
Tartan 34
Pearson 33