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Old 24-04-2006, 18:24   #16
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Pura,

Agreed... marinas don't make money damaging boats. But they certainly do stand to LOSE a great deal of it when doing so. The marina with the offending language *was* the preferred marina in the local area. Picture this... assuming you don't live aboard (which I did given your vessel and lack of time to do boat work):

Someone comes up to move your home from "lot A" to "lot B". They bring a huge device to lift your home up, drive it over to the other property, and place it there. Now, are you telling me you would sign a contract that allows the comany that operates this device to have absolutely no financial responsibility for its actions - when he is moving your home and everything you own? Furthermore that you have to pay all their attorney's fees if they do drop your house or damage it in some way?

I have signed one too many contracts like that in my life, and have been systematically ripped off by each and every one. Now why would I risk everything I own by signing such a one-sided agreement?


PS: So if careening is bad... how did they do bottom paint and ship maintenance in the days before fossil fuel and the Travelift company?
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Old 24-04-2006, 18:38   #17
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Sean.

Do you really ever read all the "fine" prints on every contract you ever signed in your life?

I sure the hell have. I don't intend to let these "bastards" to get the best of me. You should adopt the same system I use. And stick to it. I have read every contract, ever since I was 12 years old. I don't intend to stop.
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Old 24-04-2006, 19:14   #18
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I agree with you 100% Captain K!

Most contracts we sign as consumers are strictly in place to limit our rights. I learned the hard way, after getting ripped off many times. Now I not only read them, but refuse to sign and/or change the contract to fit what is fair, like in the instance of this marina.
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Old 24-04-2006, 19:35   #19
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Amen, Sean!!

Yeah. Cause there is no one out there, watching out for you. I learned that very early in life. I often listen in on my fathers conversations. Even when he didn't think I understood. I did!!

I surprised my mother & father on alot of levels. And I shocked them deeply. When they learned that I knew more than they did for my age. But, maybe not in life's experiences!! My father died when I was 11 1/2 years old. And I automatically became the man of the house. I suppose that's why I sometimes act like a kid. Cause I grew up too fast!!

But, later in life I finally did. And in some avenues I am. Such as learning and living aboard a sailboat. That's next on my list of life's experiences!!
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Old 24-04-2006, 20:33   #20
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Sorry to offend you Sean. Frankly I do a lot of boat work as an amature and a few years ago as a professional. Also I sprayed a lot of two part paint on fiberglass in my early years working my way through college and learned that it is not that much fun. There are a lot of jobs I won't take on simply because I don't have the equipment or more importantly because I can earn more in my current profession than I would save doing it myself. (And yes, I read a lot of contracts these days.)

As for careening there are still a lot of people doing it and if you wish to more power to you. But it is a poor argument to suggest that because it was frequently done frequently in the distant past that it is a reasonable option today. Anyway best of luck to you.
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Old 25-04-2006, 11:58   #21
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Sean-
Seen your web site, nice boat! The problem you would have with careening is that your "soft" fiberglass hull may grind in the sand or against any rocks. I've seen advice that if you plan to do this, pick up two dozen tires first and lay them down as fenders under the side before you lay the boat down. But then I'd suspect you'd have black marks instead of scratches.<G>

In areas with more tidal range, sometimes boaters tie alongside a pier so the boat remains on her keel, vertical, and they can paint at low tide. Otherwise you need a nice soft beach with the right slope and no rocks, equally hard to find. Apparently the Brits and some others also use "legs", I've seen pictures of these used up into the 35' range but nothing in your size, so the boat can sit on her keel and be stabilized by one or two "legs" tied to the rail on each side, so she can stand clear as the tide runs out.

But again...location. And there's the problem of the USCG interpreting the EPA regs while you are working on the bottom. You'd probably want to call securite on the radio, or notify the local USCG that you were careened, because others would be calling in to report you aground. Chinese fire drill, not a good thing.

So you may simply be stuck looking for a good haul at a commercial yard that will work with you, sorry I don't know one to recommend.

Yards not allowing you to paint or clean are the norm in the northeast. Everyone is afraid of EPA cleanup regs, and being declared a toxic site if there is bottom paint found in their gravel. I can understand their worry, too many bozos and too many lawyers and I'm not sure which are worse.

Careening near LI might be problematic--remember, even under the high water mark a lot of the bottom is privately owned.
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Old 25-04-2006, 14:45   #22
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Sean,
Over the past 12 years, I have buffed the topsides of my sailboat in Connecticut and power boat in Florida while in the water. In both cases, I have done the work from the dinghy with an electric buffer. On one occasion I dropped the buffer in the water (salt) and retrieved it with the cord, rinsed it in fresh water, let it sit in the Florida sun for lunchtime and finished the job in the afternoon. Since I only haul on a two or three year rotation, service in the water is necessary.
I just returned from Ireland, where the tide is considerably higher than in New York, and observed many bottoms being painted at low tide. Lean the vessel against the pier and do one side one day and turn the boat and do the other side the next. You could take a cruise to Maine and do the bottom without hauling.
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Old 25-04-2006, 15:47   #23
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No worries, Pura... I write with a strong tone sometimes. It's more of a writing style. Didn't meant to offend back, if I did.

Hellosailor - good points regarding the Coast Guard. As Jim points out later in this thread... New England is where it's at. I'm a native New Englander, from the state with the motto, "Live Free or Die." So as you can tell... I tend to get a little worked up when people tell me what I can and can't do. ha ha ha

Jim - Excellent post, filled with very useful information from your experiences, as always. Thanks so much for reminding me of the possible ways to do it. One, is to head to a place where people aren't up your *ss with a microscope. Long Island certainly isn't that place. ha ha ha

This year, we are going to have to haul after all. A family member came over the other day and flushed many baby-wipes down the new head. They are congregated inside a seacock with some kind of marine growth, preventing the seacock from closing and plugging the forward head. I have to haul to get at that problem without too much stress. We also have a film crew coming from a local television station (well, local to Manhattan), so we need to get things up to speed instantly. They will film in 2 weeks, so I will have to really go like crazy for this final push of shining up the exterior.

We will put on many coats of Micron CSC Ablative (worked well for me over the years) to allow us a few years between haulouts as well. We'll just go down and brush some of the growth off from time to time.

Thanks for all the input. I'll careen next time and do topsides at anchor. Hope you had a great time in Ireland.
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Old 25-04-2006, 16:29   #24
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Sean-
"They are congregated inside a seacock with some kind of marine growth," Have you tried a toilet plunger, applied from the outside? It might be able to either pull them out, or push them back in to a clear point.


No signs in the head about "If you didn't eat it..." or doesn't the family enjoy reading?<G>

I was once told "pump ten times because then you KNOW it is well clear" and I took that to heart. I'd rather have a good cedar bucket, than a balky head.
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Old 26-04-2006, 05:19   #25
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The water is maybe 40-50 degrees. I'm not ready for that kind of shock! ha ha

But that was exactly my idea. I was also going to open up the seacock from the inside and ram the stuff out, but not knowing exactly what was growing in there (and what subsequently got all tangled up with the baby wipes), I don't want to take apart the seacock and have a problem.

So... we have other factors causing us to haul this year.
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Old 26-04-2006, 11:47   #26
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Sean-
Oh yeah, 45F in a wet suit HURTS.<G> Not much better in a dry suit, for the bits that still get wet.

Here I was, already in a summer state of mind and quite forgotten about that.
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Old 26-04-2006, 12:12   #27
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45F in a dry suit should be fine - done that lots of times, even on one occasion when it was snowing.

Good compressed neoprene dry suit and a thinsulate undersuit. Biggest problem is the hands, especially if you want to operate a camera.

Coldest period is immediately after the dive, especially if you are in a Rib at speed - the evaporation efect really cools things down, so a windproof coat over the drysuit is essential.
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