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Old 27-08-2015, 14:53   #16
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Re: Budget Numbers

I agree- some of your numbers are way low and also depend on a number of factors that can influence the overall price. Lets take a look at an easy one...bottom paint.

1) What type of bottom paint... hard or ablative and what manufacturer?
2) What volume of paint?
3) Do you need it sanded down first?
4) Do you need to apply an epoxy coat first (they have a "manufacturers" lifespan of 10 years?
5) Do you need the hull stripped down to bare fiberglass?

Expect to pay $2000 in labor for the full suite of painting/epoxy coating services and $1400 or so for materials.

If you need to get your bottom soda blasted that will cost about $1400 in labor and $300 in materials.

So, if you do it yourself you are talking about $1400 without soda blasting but if you get someone else to do it, expect to pay $5100 for the full service suite.

Another one:

Haul/Block/Launch for my 38 foot monohull runs about $375 here in Florida.
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Old 27-08-2015, 15:13   #17
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Re: Budget Numbers

Today I came across a blog that had a list of things the owners of a 27 foot boat bought or budgeted for their cruise on their boat.

Bear in mind, the $$ amounts are in 1998 prices, but the prices were straight from Westmarine catalog. Also, the boat is a smaller boat (27 ft LOA). The bigger your boat, the higher the cost of many items.

The list impressed me because of the number of small items (even light bulbs for marine light fixtures) that were budgeted for spare parts. In short, the small things add up.

This may not be the answer you seek now, but I do think it is an interesting way of looking at the small details and the overall (total) expense of the items. YMMV

The page with the list is here: www.svguenevere.com/prep/outfit/
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Old 27-08-2015, 15:30   #18
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Re: Budget Numbers

Thanks everyone. I am starting to get a good handle on things.

Steady Hand, that is some list. Many of the items are already on most boats I would buy. Instruments, windless, chain, etc. But it does point out that even the small things add up fast.
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Old 27-08-2015, 15:30   #19
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Re: Budget Numbers

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Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
The list impressed me because of the number of small items (even light bulbs for marine light fixtures) that were budgeted for spare parts. In short, the small things add up.
This is so very true... I was amazed at how much latex gloves, paint brushes and rollers, nik nacks can add up to.

In addition to that something that is rarely included is the transportation cost to and from the location that has supplies. Much of the time you have to take a taxi, bus, or whatever because the supply house is not in walking or biking distance.

Don't forget the cost of shipping items either.
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Old 27-08-2015, 15:30   #20
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Re: Budget Numbers

I think your numbers are optimistic. A $1000 for running rigging on a 44 ft is way low. I just replaced 1 halyard doing the splicing and install my self and it cost $400. I have 5 halyards plus 6 sheets. Just an example.
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Old 27-08-2015, 15:38   #21
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Re: Budget Numbers

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Originally Posted by l2ridehd View Post
Thanks everyone. I am starting to get a good handle on things.

Steady Hand, that is some list. Many of the items are already on most boats I would buy. Instruments, windless, chain, etc. But it does point out that even the small things add up fast.
You end up replacing or fixing most everything multiple times anyhow!

For example, does the chain have rust? If it does then you either replace it or have it regalvanized.
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Old 27-08-2015, 18:24   #22
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Re: Budget Numbers

I think estimate all items, for your area, asking at source, then round up by 1.5x. This will be a rough figure but make sure you do have more than that.

I am not sure what surveyor you buy for USD600 out there but where I am this would only cover a very small and basic boat, which we then buy as is where is.

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Old 27-08-2015, 19:43   #23
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Re: Budget Numbers

OK, I'm equally guilty of number crunching obsessively while planning my boat purchase for next year, but I've got to say........
Planning is good, especially for the larger ticket items and what needs to be saved up for the inevitable rainy day. Also good for an idea of general monthly maintenance costs. But beyond that?

I have never kept spread sheets on my cost for maintenance and upgrades to my home. I realize they're useful in planning major renovations, but even then it's a guestimate. I don't keep track of my light bulbs, filters, mulch, lawn care, etc., etc., etc. purchases, I know generally what it costs me a month or a year. So I'm not going to stress about it. Perhaps I'm naive, but for what I'm planning I'm expecting my coats will be much lower living on a boat than maintaining this house of mine.

I haven't searched to see if there are house buying forums. Wouldn't surprise me if there were. But I think of some of the questions that might be asked on them, comparatively, to some asked here, and I have to laugh. I still can't fathom the time and effort spent angsting, asking, debating, and filling out spread sheets over them.

*Should I upgrade AC unit now or repair.
*2k sq. Ft. Or 2.5k sq. Ft. For a family of 4? Comfort? Looking to minimize.
*Looking for roofer, east coast
*cold winter! Should I replace siding and insulation?
*weed the gardens myself or pay a service?
*Switch to all LED lighting?
*install whole house generator?
*Install solar?
*blower motor went out on heat pump, now what?
*washing machine hose burst and flooded basement!
*Refrigeration problems:
*Penny lodged in disposal, reset button doesn't work! Help!
*Best recommend paint ?
*HOA won't allow clothes line. No dryer
*How do you organize your closet and pantry?
*Feral cat problem in the neighborhood! Ahhhhhh

Just trying to make a light hearted point about planning a purchase for a life changing event. I had to confront the fact that none of the above questions ever crossed my mind when I purchased my first house. I just did it. And I dealt with the problems when they arrived. Nothing was ever thrown at me that I couldn't handle. So I consider these particular fears as a non-sensible road block. Yes everyone's budgets differ, but if you are within your budget then plan for the big ticket rainy day and then just do it.
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Old 28-08-2015, 08:14   #24
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Re: Budget Numbers

I think some of us are number crunchers others not.

Then again with a major project (a big boat or a big refit) it is next to impossible to edu-guess well. You can only get any raw idea after sorting the heavy lifting out and adding a cap.

Many otherwise doable projects die due to lack of financial pre-planning.

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Old 28-08-2015, 08:55   #25
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Re: Budget Numbers

Thanks for everyone's input.

It seems many of you do not believe this can be accomplished. So therefor I am going to complete the task. Now I do agree that it will have to be very localized based. As it will vary by location. And some items like monthly dockage cost can vary a lot. But once I nail down the location I will build this cost analysis in two buckets. And once built it can always be adjusted for a new location.

I have belonged to flying clubs in the past and they had the cost down to the penny for everything. How much to have a plane always ready to fly but never fly (monthly dues), and how much it cost for every minute that plane was used (hourly HOBs, hours on board, usage charge). And every month you got a bill for the fixed cost (monthly dues) plus the actually hours you used the plane (variable costs for usage) These costs would be adjusted about once a year to reflect price changes. And usually padded or rounded up a few $$ to accommodate minor fluctuations. If it can be done with a plane it can be done with a boat.

1. What it costs to keep the boat in place ready to sail but never sails. Those will be all fixed monthly cost. Insurance, annual maintenance, dock fee's, bottom cleaning, electric if required, (might have solar or wind to maintain batteries) registration, testing all equipment once a year, and any other cost to have the boat ready to sail at any point in time but never sail it.

2. What it cost by the hour/day/week to actually sail the boat. Fuel, engine oil change every X hours, replacement funds for rigging, standing and running, boat towing insurance, engine replacement, sail replacement, bottom painting, propane, dinghy replacement, and any other cost associated with actually moving the boat in the water.

If you think about what you spend money for everything should fall into one of these buckets. This will be a fairly long process, but I will get there.
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Old 28-08-2015, 08:59   #26
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Re: Budget Numbers

Good luck on your long term project.

When you see some results of your cost analysis, come back to the forum and share it to help others in the future.
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Old 28-08-2015, 09:08   #27
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Re: Budget Numbers

I was one that had to get a handle on what it costs, but then I always over prepare, it's my nature and has what has kept me alive a few times, so you develop that habit.
House is different for several reasons, your already living in something, so you have a good idea as to costs, if not you have all your friends and family that can give you an idea. House is mainstream and therefore common knowledge, boat's not. Unless you have owned a sailboat before and or several friends and family have, then it's an unknown. I had never sailed on a boat before I bought ours, zero knowledge base.
Secondly for at least some of us, the cruising thing is a Retirement goal, income will be fixed for most that retire, so if you under estimate costs, there is no overtime at work etc. to make ends meet, need to get it right to prevent a lifetime of eating grits .
But mostly I believe it's a lot of us really don't have the experience to make an educated guess, houses? I think the experience with land living is there.

I think he's smart for determining cost to begin with, I've seen many, many dreams die due to lack of funds
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Old 28-08-2015, 11:18   #28
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Re: Budget Numbers

Eh. I like your spirit. Sure you will with this attitude.

Note some of your data will be ranges more than discrete points so you may employ distributions like normal (or lognormal) to get to some probabilistically justifiable target figures.

I am swept with envy that you can get financing on boats at 4.5%. Is it a fixed rate or is it tied to some kind of underlying factor or index (say to inflation rates, etc.)?

Where we are (the United European Emirates) such a facility costs between 7 and 9% on cars, I bet somewhat more on boats. And it is never fixed, always floating with something like inflation as the benchmark. No need to say we are at the lowest point right now but this may change at any time.

Good luck, have fun,
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Old 28-08-2015, 12:09   #29
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Re: Budget Numbers

I don't believe in "not possible" either. However, I do believe in "very very difficult".

When we budget we always budget under the assumption that we are going to have the work done by the best tradesmen in the best yards with the worst estimating... in other words, a worst case scenario. That seems to work well for us. As a bonus, when we do work ourselves we save a bundle of money.

I don't know what airplanes are like but the marine industry is full of incompetent tradesmen and is pretty much a corrupt and thieving industry. Of course, there are folks and marinas out there that are awesome but its very difficult to find them. Cost of billable services is in no way proportional to the skill of the hired help.
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Old 28-08-2015, 12:19   #30
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Re: Budget Numbers

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I don't believe in "not possible" either. However, I do believe in "very very difficult".

When we budget we always budget under the assumption that we are going to have the work done by the best tradesmen in the best yards with the worst estimating... in other words, a worst case scenario. That seems to work well for us. As a bonus, when we do work ourselves we save a bundle of money.

I don't know what airplanes are like but the marine industry is full of incompetent tradesmen and is pretty much a corrupt and thieving industry. Of course, there are folks and marinas out there that are awesome but its very difficult to find them. Cost of billable services is in no way proportional to the skill of the hired help.
Not so difficult. Just up the coast a piece from Port Clyde. Do you like lobster?

Hinckley. 130 Shore Rd., Southwest Harbor, Maine.

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