Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-08-2013, 22:41   #46
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Brokers and False Advertising

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknav View Post
Hi Julie! Think of brokers as what everyone thinks of "used cars salesmen". Many people consider surveyors are pro at what they are doing; they are not. If you want to really verify the condition of a boat, bring with you some "old salts" and ask them to take a look and sail the boat; pay them for their experience and knowledge. You'll get an unbiased opinion. As an engineer, I would test the electro/mechanical systems on board. I would also look at deterioration in hardware/hull due to usage, neglect or nature's fury; have studied Engineering Structural Analysis and am capable of doing that.

I really would NOT recommend buying any boat older than 10 years, preferably 5 years old unless it will be used as a training boat; a training boat should not exceed $5K USD. After 10 years of constant usage, from engineering point of view, a boat will require major work. While it may look great to the naked eye, engineering cross section analysis of hardware/hull/sails will tell you a different story. Here is a hint...Boats placed in charter programs are recent production, and seldom if ever are 10+ years of age.

This post will certainly cause a lot of controversy. If you have not studied Structural Analysis Engineering, I would not expect you to understand much of what I reasoned. Agree or disagree, I hope that we remain friends.

Mauritz
Your opinion of me, has no cash value!

I know a naval architect who would say you have wildly overstated your case.
__________________

__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 22:44   #47
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Brokers and False Advertising

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelnik View Post
All this fuss over a typo!

Obviously the broker meant "turkey" not turnkey!






.

BRAVO!!!!
__________________

__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 22:49   #48
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tampa Bay area
Boat: Hunter 31'
Posts: 5,731
Re: Brokers and False Advertising

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naamah View Post
I can see why the OP would be a little aggrieved. The pictures look good regardless of age but this highlights the issue with *sales* in general: show the good bits then persuade on arrival so to speak?
I thought there were things against misrepresentation to protect prospective purchasers? If what had been said about the condition of the boat was true then this may be the case...
The OP travelled a considerable distance and nothing in the advert suggests anything less than a water worthy vessel.
Happy hunting but yes; caveat emptor indeed. If the boats a wreck; avoid and trust first instincts.

The ease with which photos can be photoshopped make photos useless. Submit photos to a jury for an art show -- they will accept only RAW format -- no changes whatsoever.

That said, I know it was a nuisance to drive three hours each way only to find a pig in lipstick ...

On the other hand, you're going to have to kiss a lot of frogs to find your prince(ss) boat.

You can buy an older boat. It probably won't sink, but it probably will need some kind of work. And on the east coast, I think any shopper has to worry about Sandy and what she might have done to your otherwise dream boat. They will probably still be turning up several years from now as people try to save their beloved boats and slowly give up.

Ask hard questions, and tell the broker you're taping the conversation "for your own notes later."
__________________
Rakuflames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 23:19   #49
Registered User
 
Ron Rico's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Planet Earth
Boat: A cloud in the sky
Posts: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post

I know a naval architect who would say you have wildly overstated your case.
Ain't that the truth.
__________________
Ron Rico is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 23:30   #50
Resin Head
 
minaret's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Seattle WA
Boat: Nauticat
Posts: 7,199
Images: 52
Re: Brokers and False Advertising

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Rico View Post
Ain't that the truth.



It sure is!
__________________
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,

Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
minaret is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2013, 23:53   #51
Registered User
 
Mary Flower's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Chicago
Boat: Shannon 28
Posts: 57
Re: Brokers and False Advertising

Here's the listing. Sure looks like a fine boat to me.

1985 Sabre 38 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
__________________
Mary Flower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2013, 00:39   #52
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Brokers and False Advertising

Quote:
Originally Posted by aboatman View Post
I recommend that you find a broker that you like AND STICK WITH THEM. Folks that look at lots of boats with different brokers, just spend everyone's time. Keep in mind, if you are loyal to your good broker, they will go to the mat for you. The folks that go to multiple brokers, especially in the same locations usually get what they deserve. Once you have spent time with a broker it is then very difficult to have another broker contact them over the same boat on your behalf. Be loyal to your broker and you'll be amazed at what can happen.
As far as pricing goes, part of my licensing requirement is not to "speculate on what the seller might take" and we can only quote the listed price. We may, in some cases, describe the sellers circumstances. I always tell folks to do some research and make an offer with a refundable deposit; that is a legitimate Purchase Agreement. Everything else is just conversation. A few other points:
It's always "Cash" to the seller
No one wants to "give their stuff away". If the seller would take 50 cents on the dollar, I would buy the vessel and "flip it". Why would I bring you in on the situation? (unless you were a good loyal client!)
Keep in mind what you think the boat "needs" is your opinion ( unless related to safety and condition) and is limited concern to the seller. I have had many potentials claim the vessel needs.... and they proceed to list every thing they want on their boat.
Find a broker with the CPYB designation and that works in the profession full time; there are way too many in the business that are part timers. Would you use a part time doctor or lawyer?
ROTFLMAO - that's only a Broker's wet dream list . Were you showing the boat to OP? .
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2013, 00:49   #53
Registered User
 
Mary Flower's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Chicago
Boat: Shannon 28
Posts: 57
Re: Brokers and False Advertising

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
ROTFLMAO - that's only a Broker's wet dream list . Were you showing the boat to OP? .
I searched for the boat type and boat name and found the listing. No wonder the poor guy drove three hours to see it. It looks brand new. I'm impressed that he had the self-discipline to not throw the broker into the harbor.

If the broker hadn't actually seen the boat in person he should have apologized profusely to the OP.
__________________
Mary Flower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2013, 02:29   #54
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Brokers and False Advertising

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mary Flower View Post

If the broker hadn't actually seen the boat in person he should have apologized profusely to the OP.
Probably find that the Broker genuinely thinks that OP was a timewaster .
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2013, 03:06   #55
Registered User
 
Dulcesuenos's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Florida Keys, Bahamas Bound
Boat: 38' French Cat
Posts: 2,828
Images: 4
Ive found that ads stating "minor TLC" or "waiting for some love" from a new owner, really should read "Needs rigging , sails , engine work, headliners, woodwork everywhere, probably new electronics" etc. Ads even from of the largest brokerages are bs.
__________________
Dulcesuenos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2013, 05:02   #56
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,208
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Brokers and False Advertising

Man... I feel so sorry for 'Brokers'....
Read the Small Print... its not their fault....
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2013, 07:52   #57
Registered User
 
Julie Mor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 401
Re: Brokers and False Advertising

As we asked more questions about the poor condition of the boat, the broker was losing his enthusiasm. When asked about the two piece mast, he said Sabre made some of their boats with two-piece masts. He knew we knew this boat was never going to sell anything close to asking price. It may never sell. I'd love to see the survey boatpoker would come back with. Run away! Run away!

After we were back on the dock, the broker told us the owner needed to lower his price. It had been for sale over a year and was getting no looks. Even after the damage it sustained in Sandy, the owner didn't fix the obvious damage or lower the price. I call seller's like that "buyer kickers" as it's obvious they are just looking for a sucker.

But this was the only lemon we have experienced so far. Most of the boats have been pretty close to their description and the brokers have been been honest when asked the hard questions.
__________________

__________________
Julie Mor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 16:38.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.