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Old 03-05-2011, 14:12   #16
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Re: Bow Sprits

The jib and the staysail work in unison adding an additional sail slot that increases sail performance especially on a reach. Because of the interaction of the sails you get more drive than a single sail of the same area. It's also way easier to decrease sail area as the winds increase. Just drop the jib when you are overpowered and continue with little fuss and effort. Really easy with roller furling on the forestay. Put reef points on the staysail and you are good to near hurricane conditions.

The problem is the boom that you've got with the self tending staysail. The booms are a real PITA and dangerous, I've got the scar to prove it. The boom kites up as the sail is eased in most installations. That puts a lot of belly in the sail that produces little drive and a lot of healing moment. You can vang the staysail boom to get a decent set to the staysail but that's a trip to the foredeck that you don't need to make and defeats the self tending. The boom always seems to be in the way when working the foredeck like in anchoring or just going forward.

Ditch the boom and sheet the staysail to the cabin top. You'll get a better setting sail that is easily handled from the cockpit. It's really little more effort to tack the staysail without the boom. If you want additional drive from the staysail, have a sailmaker measure and build a maximum sized staysail for sheeting to the cabin top. You can probably pick up at least 10% more sail area without the boom.

My current boat is bowspritless and I miss it. Used to love to sit at the end of the sprit on my last boat. Really gave me the feeling of being one with the ocean, wind and boat. Also much better place to watch the dolphins playing around the boat.

Aloha
Peter O.
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Old 03-05-2011, 14:23   #17
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Re: Bow Sprits

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Originally Posted by PaulHBaker View Post
My thoughts so far with the feed back I'm getting is to maybe just get a big genoa and dump the staysail?
If you follow that plan you'll have the worst of all worlds: a boat that is no longer a good cutter, and will never be a good sloop.
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Old 03-05-2011, 14:25   #18
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Re: Bow Sprits

Thanks Adelie

That's a fairly convincing argument that I should leave well alone! I'll check out the stuff on making the forestay removeable as well.

See pic on self tacking boom - any thoughts?

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Old 03-05-2011, 14:27   #19
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Re: Bow Sprits

Thanks Bash

That's confirmed Adelie's reply - I'll leave it alone and work on getting better use of the staysail

Many Thanks
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Old 03-05-2011, 14:30   #20
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Re: Bow Sprits

Cool. I'm not a cutter guy, but if I was, I wouldn't call that spar a "self-tacking boom." I'd just call it a "staysail boom."
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Old 03-05-2011, 14:37   #21
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Re: Bow Sprits

Bash - I'm missing something, what's the difference between "self-tacking boom." and "staysail boom."?

Forgive me - I'm really new to this stuff

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Old 03-05-2011, 14:43   #22
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Re: Bow Sprits

A matter of semantics. Staysail booms are always self-tacking. You could accomplish the same thing with a few blocks situated in the proper position and the staysail sheet led forward to its tacking point through a block and then aft to the cockpit. There are a couple books that have great diagrams for boomless self tacking jibs and staysails.
kind regards,
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Old 03-05-2011, 14:47   #23
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Re: Bow Sprits

Hi Peter O

When you say 'Vang the boom' - do you mean that I put the stops in the staysail boom track when I've got the staysail in position and then sheet the boom down hard so it doesn't belly? - I think I see what you mean and i've not used those stops on th staysail boom car yet

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Old 03-05-2011, 15:03   #24
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Re: Bow Sprits

Yes, a vang to keep the boom from kiting. Even with a track, the boom will lift when the sheet is eased as you begin to fall off the wind. The Hoyt boom won't kite but are expensive, require reinforcing the foredeck in most cases, and look pretty ugly. We ditched the boom after I got nailed by it and found it to be generally worthless. Very happy sailing with the staysail sheeted to the cabin top. installed a short length of track on each side and two smallish winches for our Westsail 32.
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Old 03-05-2011, 15:23   #25
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Re: Bow Sprits

I tend to agree with the above re: the staysail boom, although I have limited experience.

On our 33' cutter (short sprit) I put a bit of track across the cabin top (Garhauer) and essentially have a main sheet traveller for my staysail boom. I may eventually dump the boom altogether.

I never felt I could get the darn staysail to work right as it would kite up. And, on at least one occassion, the old gear took a lot of abuse when sailing into the wind and the boat would fall far enough through the wind to let the staysail go slack, then 'BAM' back she would come.

Adding the traveller allows me to control it better, much better behaved, less banging around. I like that.

I also use two vang/preventers on my main to keep that in control. I singlehand and I really like the improved sense of security with this set up.

Now we also have a 44' cutter with a much bigger sprit. I like the idea of dumping the boom and going to winches. In fact our main winches were significantly undersized (43ST) and I have a used pair of 52ST's to install. I was going to leave the 43's anyway. But thinking about this thread I could use them for the staysail. I'll give that a try anyway to see how it works out.
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Old 03-05-2011, 16:06   #26
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Re: Bow Sprits

The staysail is a workhorse for single handing, since it is self-tending. Keep it.
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Old 03-05-2011, 16:22   #27
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Re: Bow Sprits

Quote:
Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
The jib and the staysail work in unison adding an additional sail slot that increases sail performance especially on a reach. Because of the interaction of the sails you get more drive than a single sail of the same area. It's also way easier to decrease sail area as the winds increase. Just drop the jib when you are overpowered and continue with little fuss and effort. Really easy with roller furling on the forestay. Put reef points on the staysail and you are good to near hurricane conditions.

The problem is the boom that you've got with the self tending staysail. The booms are a real PITA and dangerous, I've got the scar to prove it. The boom kites up as the sail is eased in most installations. That puts a lot of belly in the sail that produces little drive and a lot of healing moment. You can vang the staysail boom to get a decent set to the staysail but that's a trip to the foredeck that you don't need to make and defeats the self tending. The boom always seems to be in the way when working the foredeck like in anchoring or just going forward.

Ditch the boom and sheet the staysail to the cabin top. You'll get a better setting sail that is easily handled from the cockpit. It's really little more effort to tack the staysail without the boom. If you want additional drive from the staysail, have a sailmaker measure and build a maximum sized staysail for sheeting to the cabin top. You can probably pick up at least 10% more sail area without the boom.

My current boat is bowspritless and I miss it. Used to love to sit at the end of the sprit on my last boat. Really gave me the feeling of being one with the ocean, wind and boat. Also much better place to watch the dolphins playing around the boat.

Aloha
Peter O.
Someone finally got it right, on cutters its all about the slots. Losing the staysail would be a sacriledge, just about the most used and functional of the lot. Staysail booms are often referred to as deck sweepers for good reason. A loose footed arrangement with the tackle on the cabintop will improve sailing performance as welll as safety.
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Old 03-05-2011, 17:48   #28
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Re: Bow Sprits

Sorry missed the staysail boom, get rid of that, keep the rest.

There are 2 ways to get a foresail to self tend without a boom.

Radiused track just in front of the mast. If the cabin top is too narrow, the ends will have to run out onto supporting trestles, though that would constrict the side decks. Sheet runs from bow just below tack of active sail then back to car on radiused track and up to clew, thru a block and back to car. Sometimes it goes back to clew for 3-1 purchase.

The other option is a "cruising traveler". A 4 or 6 part puchase to sheet the jib, with half of the purchase on each rail,. In this configuration the leeward half of the purchase pulls the clew down and the windward side of the purchase pulls the clew inboard.

Both cases only work with smaller jibs, 90% and smaller, MAYBE 95%.
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Old 06-05-2011, 06:13   #29
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Re: Bow Sprits

Thanks everyone for the replies

I'm off to the boat today and I can see that my simplest option to improve the the staysail performance is to vang the staysail boom to the car on the staysail track. I'll have a go.

Cheers
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Old 06-05-2011, 07:53   #30
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Re: Bow Sprits

Aside from the rig comments already made, The Sprit will also provide some protection to the hull from anchor damage, as the pick is somewhat forward compared to a standard bow roller. However, thats not the reason they are built onto bows. Its just an advantage.

Depending on the boat, they can make boarding and disembarking easier or harder when in a boat is tied up bow-to. If they are angled upwards it can be a bit of a climb up/down etc.
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