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Old 08-07-2015, 03:25   #61
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Re: Botany Bay to Pittwater

The Never Ending Saga

Spoke to proprietor this morning and they found the motor manufactures book on board where I told them it was. They looked up what the head bolts should have been tightened to and none of them where at the correct tightness. So they retightened them all to manufactures recommendations. Motor test and the leaks initially stopped but started again after a while so now they are going to pull the heads off again and check that the caskets have been installed correctly. BUT of course this can not happen until next Monday as they are too busy this week. The other issue whether or not the engine oil was changed whilst on the invoice has not been confirmed.

Un f%*king believable.
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Old 09-07-2015, 07:01   #62
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Re: Botany Bay to Pittwater

Good luck Manni

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Old 09-07-2015, 15:06   #63
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Re: Botany Bay to Pittwater

Mocking,

Maybe you can ask the mods to consolidate this thread with the new one. More engine pics in this one, for one, but also because it is a continuing saga. Possibly a new title for the combined thread, asking for the particular type of assistance you'd like from the forum at this time......

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Old 15-07-2015, 03:34   #64
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Re: Botany Bay to Pittwater

No way that oil has been changed.

Water leaks after a full head recon = disaster. Thats not just a little stuff up or incorrect torque setting, thats a major fu*k up.

Whatever you do, Don't pay them anything. Take the boat to another mechanic, get it fixed then pay the new mechanic. When they chase you for payment, tell them the service was not done as agreed to so payment will not be made.

Sounds like you know your rights - just bad luck with this dodgy operator.
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Old 15-07-2015, 06:59   #65
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Re: Botany Bay to Pittwater

Quote:
Originally Posted by SimonV View Post
Are you sure that head has been off?

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I was thinking the same, colours changed a bit to head but shadows behind crankcase vent, there's gaskets different to rocker covers, some nuts have been turned. The blob of rust/build up at the aft?end/ left side of pics looks pretty similar. Looks very rattlecan rebuild to me- might be fair dinkum but maybe they just scratched the gunk off & wound down the bolts a bit?
Pretty shocking stuff, I saw something similar about 15-20 years ago on a pair of slant 6 engines, very dodgy, they had been delivered to the yard I worked at & the "mechanic" engaged by the owner had test run one but sounded rubbish, i'd wandered over with the boss for a look & we were just wondering how an elbow had been wound in between two webs when the witness marks from a hammer became apparent. We were pretty suss about the mechanic & the boss decided he couldn't enter the premises as didn't want the association implied, called the owner & suggested an investigation by a known experienced & competent marine mechanic- he opened one engine on site & amongst other stuff found machining swarf in sump... the owner got a good job(re rebuilt) done in the end at less cost than the first joker..
Unfortunatly there is some unscrupulous people around, even to proceed with repairs beyond the original scope of a "service" without effective communication looks very poor, in the modern world with camera phones & email, issues can be represented very quickly directly with the client so informed permission can be given..

Jeff.
I'd be bringing that boat home even if you need to push her down pittwater with a rib & sail home.
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Old 19-07-2015, 23:24   #66
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Re: Botany Bay to Pittwater

[QUOTE=Mocking;1803912]Just case anyone is interested; trip details -
Captain Cook Bridge to Church Point is 41.4 nautical miles
With wind, waves and swell on the nose all day and cruising at an average of 4.44 knts took 9 hours and 19 minutes.

Hi Mocking
Thanks for the above info.

you say the wind and swell was on your nose, how big was the swell, and what was the wind strength, I take it was blowing a Nor-Easter.

were you sailing or motoring ?

I have yet to sail my new South Coast 36, due to work, but will be out on her next week, sailing around up North, then sailing her home to Lake Maquarie around September, be good to have a bit of an idea how she may go.

Cheers

Shane
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Old 20-07-2015, 17:19   #67
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Re: Botany Bay to Pittwater

I'm not much help with the sailing times but would like to add this,

Servicing a diesel engine is fairly simple really.

An oil change (with filter) is very straight forward. The fuel filter/s can be tricky if you don't know what your doing but you can learn how to do that quite easily.

To give an example,

I am sailing from Townsville to the Whitsundays next week and will service my engine, a 4 cyl Perkins later today or tomorrow.

An oil and oil filter change on my motor takes me 20 minutes. The two fuel filters take a combined time of about 30 minutes.

My engine takes 5 liters of oil that costs roughly $70. The two fuel filters cost $40 for the pair. Oil filter costs $18.

If I change the air filter as well it adds another $25. but I only change that occasionally when It looks a bit dirty.

So I can service my engine in about an hour for a cost of roughly $130.00.

Most modern diesels do not require you to bleed the whole fuel system to replace fuel filters. You just need to purge the air from the filters and that is quite a simple task.

Apart from saving you a lot of money you will know that the service is done properly and with the parts of YOUR choice. Not some cheap part charged at expensive rates.

I generally carry enough on board to do a full service at any time.

Just my thought's.

Regards, Rick.
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Old 21-07-2015, 02:27   #68
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Re: Botany Bay to Pittwater

[QUOTE=Sea Scamp;1872614]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mocking View Post
Just case anyone is interested; trip details -
Captain Cook Bridge to Church Point is 41.4 nautical miles
With wind, waves and swell on the nose all day and cruising at an average of 4.44 knts took 9 hours and 19 minutes.

Hi Mocking
Thanks for the above info.

you say the wind and swell was on your nose, how big was the swell, and what was the wind strength, I take it was blowing a Nor-Easter.

were you sailing or motoring ?

I have yet to sail my new South Coast 36, due to work, but will be out on her next week, sailing around up North, then sailing her home to Lake Maquarie around September, be good to have a bit of an idea how she may go.

Cheers

Shane
Hi Shane

Yes the swell was from the nth at 1.5 to 2 mtrs and the wind was also from the N NE the strongest was around 10 to 15 knts around mid morning. I had to be at Pittwater by 1.00 pm so I motored all the way. She went well all the way and didn't toll much until I entered Pittwater and had the swell and wind on my right, if I had more time I would have extended my north direction longer and then swung around and come around the light house with the weather to aft. But I didn't have the time. Once I get it back I will do a little exploring around the area.
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Old 21-07-2015, 02:30   #69
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Re: Botany Bay to Pittwater

Quote:
Originally Posted by franrick View Post
I'm not much help with the sailing times but would like to add this,

Servicing a diesel engine is fairly simple really.

An oil change (with filter) is very straight forward. The fuel filter/s can be tricky if you don't know what your doing but you can learn how to do that quite easily.

To give an example,

I am sailing from Townsville to the Whitsundays next week and will service my engine, a 4 cyl Perkins later today or tomorrow.

An oil and oil filter change on my motor takes me 20 minutes. The two fuel filters take a combined time of about 30 minutes.

My engine takes 5 liters of oil that costs roughly $70. The two fuel filters cost $40 for the pair. Oil filter costs $18.

If I change the air filter as well it adds another $25. but I only change that occasionally when It looks a bit dirty.

So I can service my engine in about an hour for a cost of roughly $130.00.

Most modern diesels do not require you to bleed the whole fuel system to replace fuel filters. You just need to purge the air from the filters and that is quite a simple task.

Apart from saving you a lot of money you will know that the service is done properly and with the parts of YOUR choice. Not some cheap part charged at expensive rates.

I generally carry enough on board to do a full service at any time.

Just my thought's.

Regards, Rick.
Hi Rick,

WOW, I am really going to have to dig in with this guy and get him to review his price. It would have been cheaper to bring it up there and and get it done up there. Then of course stayed for a week or two around the Whitsundays, I hear Butterfly Bay calling me
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Old 21-07-2015, 02:32   #70
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Re: Botany Bay to Pittwater

Quote:
Originally Posted by waikikin View Post
I was thinking the same, colours changed a bit to head but shadows behind crankcase vent, there's gaskets different to rocker covers, some nuts have been turned. The blob of rust/build up at the aft?end/ left side of pics looks pretty similar. Looks very rattlecan rebuild to me- might be fair dinkum but maybe they just scratched the gunk off & wound down the bolts a bit?
Pretty shocking stuff, I saw something similar about 15-20 years ago on a pair of slant 6 engines, very dodgy, they had been delivered to the yard I worked at & the "mechanic" engaged by the owner had test run one but sounded rubbish, i'd wandered over with the boss for a look & we were just wondering how an elbow had been wound in between two webs when the witness marks from a hammer became apparent. We were pretty suss about the mechanic & the boss decided he couldn't enter the premises as didn't want the association implied, called the owner & suggested an investigation by a known experienced & competent marine mechanic- he opened one engine on site & amongst other stuff found machining swarf in sump... the owner got a good job(re rebuilt) done in the end at less cost than the first joker..
Unfortunatly there is some unscrupulous people around, even to proceed with repairs beyond the original scope of a "service" without effective communication looks very poor, in the modern world with camera phones & email, issues can be represented very quickly directly with the client so informed permission can be given..

Jeff.
I'd be bringing that boat home even if you need to push her down pittwater with a rib & sail home.
Hi Jeff,

and if I do not receive a satisfactory response from them by this weekend that is exactly what I will be doing and then going to fair trading.

This has dragged on way to long.
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Old 21-07-2015, 15:43   #71
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Re: Botany Bay to Pittwater

Mocking,

Generally, if you get a repair manual for your engine, they are clearly enough written that you can figure out what to do for yourself, even when it's your first time. You can also possibly have a friend who is familiar with working on his/her engine. This just started out as a 300 hr. service, right? with a possible head gasket leak? Working on the engine is how you develop confidence at doing it.

Ann
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Old 21-07-2015, 21:30   #72
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Re: Botany Bay to Pittwater

Hi Ann, I agree that from what I have now seen and read it looks fairly straight forward. I think that as I have never done anything like this I lack confidence. 😬I have no problem flying planes, sky diving, snowboarding, scuba diving etc. Or with electrical work. But put a motor in front of me 😨

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Old 21-07-2015, 21:48   #73
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Re: Botany Bay to Pittwater

Mind you, if it makes you feel a bit better, that head gasket leak was probably going to be a challenge to a new mechanic. Not impossible, but a lot more involved than a basic oil change that's for sure.

Also, sometimes ignorance can be helpful. Just yesterday I was discussing rebuilding old French engines with my Volvo mechanic and he confessed that he had ignored the rules about bedding in wet sleeve engines and used a sealant at the bottom despite it being an absolute no-no.

My response... "Oh? Really?" I never read that warning and I had always used a sealant too, and seemed to have a lot less trouble with those seals than any of my friends. Now I know why.
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Old 22-07-2015, 16:10   #74
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Re: Botany Bay to Pittwater

Hi Mocking.

While that engine oil looks very black and certainly looks like it hasn't been changed it is quite possible that it might have been changed.

On my Perkins, If I do an oil and filter change and run the engine for a few minutes before re-checking the oil level, the oil will invariably look black again already. This is due to carbon (and other) deposits that setlle in the internals of the engine and very soon mix with the new (clean) oil.

This wont happen with a newer motor but my Perkins has a few thousand hours use and therefore a degree of crap inside the engine and lubricating system.

If I were to do two or three oil changes with an hour or so engine run time between them The oil would be noticeably cleaner but that is probably a was of time and money.

Sometimes using an additive to clean the engine oil can do more harm than good and I wouldn't even go there.

As to your Yanmar repairs,,,,,,

I'm not sure they can bill you for ANYTHING at all if they haven't satisfactorily completed the work that they have done and it would appear from your messages that you now have bigger problems with your engine than before you took it to them.

The labor hours look enormous for what has been done. Taking the head off an engine is not major surgery, particularly for a competent mechanic, even allowing for confined access etc. Someone who is used to working on boats should know how to work in confined areas and have the correct tools to do so.

Keep your cool when dealing with them, if it comes to litigation or mediation they would like nothing better than to be able to say you made or implied threats, weather physical or other to make you look bad. Also be careful about how and where you name them, litigation is expensive, whether you win or loose.

Good luck,

Rick
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Old 22-07-2015, 16:55   #75
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Re: Botany Bay to Pittwater

Quote:
Originally Posted by franrick View Post
Hi Mocking.

While that engine oil looks very black and certainly looks like it hasn't been changed it is quite possible that it might have been changed.

On my Perkins, If I do an oil and filter change and run the engine for a few minutes before re-checking the oil level, the oil will invariably look black again already. This is due to carbon (and other) deposits that setlle in the internals of the engine and very soon mix with the new (clean) oil.

This wont happen with a newer motor but my Perkins has a few thousand hours use and therefore a degree of crap inside the engine and lubricating system.

If I were to do two or three oil changes with an hour or so engine run time between them The oil would be noticeably cleaner but that is probably a was of time and money.

Sometimes using an additive to clean the engine oil can do more harm than good and I wouldn't even go there.

As to your Yanmar repairs,,,,,,

I'm not sure they can bill you for ANYTHING at all if they haven't satisfactorily completed the work that they have done and it would appear from your messages that you now have bigger problems with your engine than before you took it to them.

The labor hours look enormous for what has been done. Taking the head off an engine is not major surgery, particularly for a competent mechanic, even allowing for confined access etc. Someone who is used to working on boats should know how to work in confined areas and have the correct tools to do so.

Keep your cool when dealing with them, if it comes to litigation or mediation they would like nothing better than to be able to say you made or implied threats, weather physical or other to make you look bad. Also be careful about how and where you name them, litigation is expensive, whether you win or loose.

Good luck,

Rick
Hi Rick
I agree in regards to the oil however the owner confirmed that his mechanic did "forget to do it". They were going to take the heads back off and redo them as they also had the wrong torque settings on the head bolts.
This was two weeks ago, whilst I have not been chasing them I have not heard back as to what is going on. I will leave it to Monday then send a strong email and copy my legal eagle.
This is now beyond what any trade or business would deem as reasonable. They have had the boat for nearly 4 months now. Two weeks ago when they told me it was ready I went up there and paid nearly $600 for another mooring for a month as I was going to leave her there and explore PIttwater a bit. When I went on board and did my pre start checks I noted that the oil was still black. On start rivers of water came out the head. I went back and advised the owner who was going to check it out the following Monday and advise. I paid $3k of the $6,400 invoice as he was going to check it again. I did get an email from him on the Monday confirming the oil not done and head issue. Have not heard any more.
In regards to name and shame as long as I stick to the facts and not imply or write anything derogatory it is safe.

CHeers

Manni
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