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Old 17-08-2018, 05:46   #1
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Boats for sale: mostly beat, leaking, wasted UGH

In the process of looking at 1980-2000 vintage boats for sale, one common fault is regularly encountered: the boat that leaks.


I'm not talking about thru-hulls or the such, I'm taking about boats that have saturated decks that have often ruined the interiors.


One boat I love is the Beneteau 430. Those I've looked at are beat. One specimen really upset me because a bulkhead in the galley area had been allowed to rot right through. I traced the leak to a dodger snap. It took one minute to figure that one out, and the leak could have been stopped in less than five minutes. Instead it was neglected.


Another we looked at- an immense Jeanneau 1990s vintage- we passed on. It looked OK but it just didn't fit our use. The buyer reported being aboard when it rained and said the water was pouring in all over the place.


Teak decks- I got it. Very expensive to replace- so expensive nobody is going to do it. Even to pull them up and replace saturation in some deck areas is a job. But to let the boat rot because of it? One we looked at the floor was gone and the bottom of most teak furniture was rotted black.



It's sad to see so many classics from the 70s and 80s allowed to be ruined past the point where it would be cost effective to repair. Does anyone bother to maintain boats anymore?


Yeah, I can answer that anecdotally. We looked at a B455 that was immaculate. The seller told me it had initially been a charter boat, but one would never know it. The seller had obviously piled a lot of time and effort into keeping it clean and dry.



I know how that goes- the stupid 1990 C30TR I've owned for 23 years is clean and dry. This comes from spending more time working on the boat that with sails up. I wish more owners spent just a bit of time addressing problems when they arise.


It's disheartening, really. So many classic Taiwanese cruisers, almost all of them ruined. And, in today's market, it's no wonder they are hard to sell.


I'm just disappointed in the my fellow boat owners. Is it too much to ask to stop leaks early? To not ruin a boat?


Thanks for listening.
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Old 17-08-2018, 05:58   #2
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Re: Boats for sale: mostly beat, leaking, wasted UGH

Feel your pain. I'm refitting a '70s boat that has a lot of minor damage from leaks. Instead of finding the source the leaks and fixing the issue the PO just globbed on some more glue like substance from a tube. Upside I paid 1/3 the price for the boat (compared to simliar boats on the market that are in good shape). Almost done fixing leaks and getting the inside liveable so I can focus on systems.



As an example



Before:






After clean up, epoxy fairing and 1 coat of paint


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Old 17-08-2018, 05:59   #3
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Re: Boats for sale: mostly beat, leaking, wasted UGH

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Originally Posted by Tetepare View Post
I'm just disappointed in the my fellow boat owners. Is it too much to ask to stop leaks early? To not ruin a boat?

Thanks for listening.
I hear ya.

We were shopping for similarly aged boats a while ago and nearly everything we saw had water damage. Especially around portlights.

However, boats are for sale for a reason... and often it's because they're not being used/maintained anymore.

For the most part, I think the ones that are being used are being cared for.

We have a large cruising ketch from 1983. She leaked a bit when I bought her. I can proudly say that her interior is now always dry as a bone.

I wouldn't settle for anything else... the new cushions were nearly 1/5 the cost of the boat.
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Old 17-08-2018, 06:15   #4
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Re: Boats for sale: mostly beat, leaking, wasted UGH

Ah yes, the ubiquitous silicon caulk, the solution to stop every (internal) leak- or at least redirect it. Where do they think that water is going to go, suddenly back up out of the deck?


Silicon caulk screams "neglected boat"
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Old 17-08-2018, 06:23   #5
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Re: Boats for sale: mostly beat, leaking, wasted UGH

The issue about leaks comes from mostly poor construction quality. The fit and finish on boats from the 1970's through late 1990's in mass produced, production boats was abysmal. I remember going to factories and watching boats being built back when I was in the business and seeing horrific workmanship and construction practices. If you look at the real quality boats from that era, Swan, Hinckley, Little Harbor, Shannon, etc they are 30+ years old and free from leaks, warped bulkheads, and water intrusion. The reason for this is they were all high quality boats built with care and sound manufacturing. But they cost twice as much as a similar production boat, and were owned by people with money who took excellent care of their boat. Cheap production boat are always going to be built by companies who cut corners. I have seen brand new Benetau's in the last few years delivered on their own bottom from Europe to the Caribbean, I was on one that was 50+ feet that still had the plastic on the fabrics and the bulkheads had broken loose in the crossing and none of the cabinets would close as the joinery had shifted. Imagine how well that boat will hold up in 30 years. When I was shopping for a boat for myself back in 2010 I looked at all the 42' - 45' sailboats in my budget range and what I saw was a lot of junk that was falling apart and required a huge amount of money thrown at it. Finally I decided to buy a solid well built hull and interior and gut it and build the boat to modern standards. After 8 years I have a very nice boat with a beautiful interior, modern equipment of the highest caliber and no water intrusion. It cost me about $130,000 and thousands of hours of work but I got what I wanted at a price I was willing to pay. Whether I will ever get my money back is another story, but I guess I will find out soon as I am moving on to a larger motor yacht and putting my Cheoy Lee up for sale. Maybe someone will see the value and opportunity to avoid the aggravation and buy my boat. I doubt it, most buyers want big and cheap and will not pay for quality. They would rather buy a couple of cases of silicone to fix all their problems
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Old 17-08-2018, 06:38   #6
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Re: Boats for sale: mostly beat, leaking, wasted UGH

While I agree that a high quality boat is the best place to start, portlights, hatches, and through-deck fittings are a weak spot on any old boat no matter how high the initial construction quality. They must be maintained.
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Old 17-08-2018, 07:18   #7
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Re: Boats for sale: mostly beat, leaking, wasted UGH

Leaks are from poor construction.


The second most common factor is the 'idiot who had the boat before me'. (Someone drilling a hole where there should be none.)


Our boat built around 1980 has only 'idiot' leaks (traced and fixed by now).


b.
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Old 17-08-2018, 08:14   #8
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Re: Boats for sale: mostly beat, leaking, wasted UGH

I will argue- and correct me if you disagree- that teak decks on even the best 70s and 80s boats, being screwed into the cored deck, will and do leak.


That said, I wondered...could it be true that a very high end boat doesn't have a leaky teak deck? So I did a search on YW for Swan 1970-1980, there are seven for sale in NA. I looked at the first three, not a one had glaring damage from a saturated deck. One had damage from a window leak.


You may be on to something. I always figured Hinkleys weren't saturated because they are typically well maintained and often refurbished. Maybe my hunch was wrong.


OK, but let me get back to this...Krogan, CT, Cabo, etc etc. Decks are saturated. At some point the owners realized that the water was leaking in from the deck. So why let it go to the point that the boat is effectively ruined? Really?



And I'm not talking solely about teak decks either. Pay the yard $5000 to rebed everything when the problem starts...won't a seller eventually get that $5000 back out at resale?


Big problem is I'm expecting stewardship from a group as a whole that I see as responsible and caring...but the results don't agree.
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Old 17-08-2018, 08:56   #9
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Re: Boats for sale: mostly beat, leaking, wasted UGH

COST!
I have been following "restoring SUSANNA" on U-tube for the past 5 years.
This is the story of the restoration of a 48' wooden 2 master. Mahogany planked and teak decks. Built in ITALY in 1957 it has been a family boat since the early 60's. This was no do it yourself project.
$$ are never a subject but it is obvious that this is a family that has the resources to fund whatever they need.
If you are into classic sailors this series of 90X HQ videos is worth watching.
The cost of a single plank and the fitting and finishing of that plank probably cost as much as my boat!

The 48 footer is in Ventura harbor in Ca, now ready (almost) for family use.
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Old 17-08-2018, 09:14   #10
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Re: Boats for sale: mostly beat, leaking, wasted UGH

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Originally Posted by Peregrine1983 View Post
While I agree that a high quality boat is the best place to start, portlights, hatches, and through-deck fittings are a weak spot on any old boat no matter how high the initial construction quality. They must be maintained.
So true.... They are my priorities on my newly bought 1985 Catalina 27!
Thanks
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Old 17-08-2018, 09:55   #11
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Re: Boats for sale: mostly beat, leaking, wasted UGH

The companies selling plastic boats 50-30 years ago never imagined people would want to keep sailing and maintaining them these days.

I bet even 20 years would have been way above their expectations and design / build intentions.
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Old 17-08-2018, 09:57   #12
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Re: Boats for sale: mostly beat, leaking, wasted UGH

They are out there, after 15 boats I found a 2003 beneteau 423 in pristine shape, no leaks no water damage the only water in the bilge came from the ac, now vented overboard
I did start to despair at some of the trashed boats I saw many with initially minor problems that were never addressed.
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Old 17-08-2018, 10:27   #13
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Re: Boats for sale: mostly beat, leaking, wasted UGH

I disagree that vintage boats had lessor fit and finish, I think they were often overbuilt. They didn't look to engineering or poor hardware to lessen weight like they do today. Let's face it, good maintenance and upkeep is hard and and it's expensive. Most sailboat owners are not rich people, they have to do the work themselves while working for a living and they just loose time and interest and the boat suffers. I keep my boat ready for sea at all times and it takes self discipline to not put things off, especially when you find yourself spending less and less time sailing and more and more maintaining. I you don't like to tinker, you shouldn't own a sailboat. That said, I am guilty too. I kept my Seaward 25 on it's trailer, in immaculate condition until I bought my Island Packet 32 and guess who gets all the love. I should have sold the 25 immediately but I was too emotionally attached and thought I would use it on inland lakes during the hot Florida summers when I don't go offshore. That didn't happen and now a boat I parked in the back yard in perfect condition is a project boat that is getting worse as it sits and I am going to have to sell her as such.
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Old 17-08-2018, 10:33   #14
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Re: Boats for sale: mostly beat, leaking, wasted UGH

While we are talking about rotten boats (as is in "rotted out"), how about the brokers who lie their arses off by sending promising pictures of a boat with minor issues....and then you pay a surveyor, all in with the splash and back on the cradle, over 700 dollars and get pictures and report back that you wouldn't waste 10 minutes on that boat if you were in the locale to do it yourself. Boy, did i learn a less on that one.

Guys, and i am speaking to the young guns...not the old salts....if you can't get your eyes on the boat...or someone you can trust....don't ever do what i did....unless you feel lucky that day.

Three years later i am still steamed about the lack of integrity of that brokerage. I really believe it was to just make some work for the yard guys. Stupid me.
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Old 17-08-2018, 10:57   #15
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Re: Boats for sale: mostly beat, leaking, wasted UGH

That is I the nature of the job

http://www.aesopfables.com/cgi/aesop...pionandtheFrog
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