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Old 08-08-2010, 18:32   #1
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Boat Size - LOD vs LOA for Marina Berth Measurement

Hi all , Im looking at buying a 42 ft roberts spray ive been in love with boat for 17 years and now in in a postition to buy it. But it has a bowsprit and a bumkin/davits which takes it out to 55.7 feet or 17 meters over all.
Most marinas in queensland want between $300 to $400 a week for a boat of this size overall , so im putting off buying it.
When you sign up for a berth do i just tell them it 42' or will it be measured?
does any body know of a cheaper way round it or where i could rent a berth in the mackay, yepoon, gladstone, brisbane area , for around $125/ $150 a week? this boat has a lot of electronics on board and am reluctant to leave it in an unsecure area.
Some one told me you can get berths in canal apartment complexs where the owners live over seas and dont own a boat, is this true ?
Any help would be appreciated, cheers murray
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Old 08-08-2010, 18:44   #2
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In the states some marinas charge by loa, some by lod. Only way to find out is to ask. If you're tying alongside they tend to charge by the space you occupy, if you're in a slip sometimes they cut you some slack.
Don't know about Oz.
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Old 08-08-2010, 19:19   #3
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In my area (Chesapeake Bay - US) it is LOA, however, it is usually manufactured length. Add on davits are zero, but a bowsprit is counted. So, my IP31 measures in at 34'9" and that is a 35' slip. The bad side to this is people with large dingy and davits are hanging 4 or 5 feet into the lane.

However... this is a terrible year in this area (and many others) so marinas are making deals. Press them to take a deal. Once you are set on it, then LOD/LOA or any other is irrelevant.
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Old 09-08-2010, 03:43   #4
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Sounds like you are only getting short term quotes at those rates. Try asking for long term berthing - quarterly, 6 monthly or annual. I recently got a rates list from Runaway Bay marina here on the Gold Coast, and they want $11200 per annum for an 18 meter berth, and they are one of the more expensive ones. Ive found the RQYS people at Manly very friendly and they are a lot cheaper than GC yards - I can't tell you what they want for 17 meters but they were a good 30% cheaper for a 15 meter berth compared to Runaway Bay. Scarborough is cheaper still.

Private river berths may be available on the Brisbane river, but difficult to find (you have to regularly troll the classifieds in the Courier Mail) and a good few hours to get onto Moreton Bay. Gold Coast: generally not for Yachts - the Main River bridge won't allow any decent vessels (ie anything with a mast & sail) underneath. Plus, they have no showers or toilets, no pump out station, and no hardstand or lift facilities. Forget private, go the marina.

BTW - the boat sounds familiar, it's not a blue one from Mooloolaba by any chance?
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Old 09-08-2010, 07:00   #5
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My boat is 40' on the deck, but 45' with the bowsprit... I always tell them 40' and have always been charged that way. The one exception is when I have had to pull her out and have her stored on the hard. Then they measure her overall length. That was up North when I had to pull her each winter, now that I am in FL that no longer applys..
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Old 09-08-2010, 07:05   #6
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Here in the Tampa Bay area every marina that I have check with charges based on the total overall length. They will measure it from the farthest forward extension to the farthest aft extension. So, bow pulpits and even your anchor (if it sticks out in front of the pulpit) will be measured, as will davits, ladders, or anything sticking out aft.

Clearly, based on the comments of others, this is not the case everywhere. Heck, it might not even be the case for EVERY marina in Tampa Bay (just every one that I've checked with). So, bottom line is that you need to check with the marinas in the area where you are considering docking your boat, and find out their individual policies.
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Old 09-08-2010, 08:12   #7
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It seems odd to measure anything but LOA as that is the space you will be occupying and blocking others from using. I assume the sprit can't extend over the gangway (bow in) where it could decapitate other boaters. Likewise, the davits probably can't extend far into the channel behind you as that reduces the maneuvering room of those who have slips behind you and want to get out.

With that said, $400 week seems mighty steep even for slips in the Los Angeles region.



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Old 09-08-2010, 09:43   #8
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I sat on the Port Captain Committee for 5 years at the San Diego Yacht Club, where the rate is based on the shadow that the boat casts. Tenders on davits, anchors, bowsprits, etc all add to the overall shadow. We purchased a Leica laser measurer that enabled us to measure boats (each boat must be measured before being approved for a specific slip) accurately to a fraction of an inch. However, I was encouraging that we change the length basis and instead base the slip fee on the square footage that the boat occupies. The reason being is that boats are getting more and more beamier (not a real word, I know, but hopefully you'll understand).

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Old 09-08-2010, 10:33   #9
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Well, one solution would be to come over here to the PNW. Here at the head of the Columbia river slips can be had for $1,200 US.....a year! Most marina's I've used over the years use LOA not LOD. One reason is if you're in a slip much shorter than your boat something is sticking out into the waterway. Your bow sprit or your dink. Either way, it's much easier for another boater to run into whatever is sticking out there, so in part it's a safety issue. Two years ago the marina I was in put my 65' boat in a 50' slip, so my bow was really sticking out there. A drunk fisherman came in late at night and ran into my boat which was unattended in the slip. He was wood, I was steel; had the Coast Guard station not been very close to get emergency pumps to him and had the marina staff not come in to lift his boat in the middle of the night he would have sunk! My boat? A small scratch not even worth doing anything about as it didn't get down to bare metal! Gawd I love steel boats!

Regards,

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Old 09-08-2010, 10:35   #10
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As someone else posted, it varies by marina and you might be able to negoiate.

My boat was originally sold as a "Camano 28" but at some point, it was changed to "Camano 31". My marina was charging me for 31 feet, but one day on a lark, I took in the registration document that showed it as a Camano 28. The manager lowered my rate to 30 feet (the slip minimum).

You have to ask.
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Old 11-08-2010, 07:20   #11
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Few if any marinas/boatyards actually measure the boat - they take your word for it. Rather than getting into a "pissing match" about boat length since they know we all lie a little, they simple adjust the rates to compensate for the average "shortage."
- - But a new thing is the marinas charging for "slip size" rather than boat length. There is a practical limit on how much you can hang your boat's butt out into the channels. And also if you have a small boat they don't want to collect for 30 feet when you are taking up a 40 ft slip.
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Old 11-08-2010, 17:07   #12
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FWIW, your quoted rates do sound expensive. Until this year, my in-laws kept their 40' live-aboard boat in a marina berth in Gladstone for, from memory, about $300 per month.

In the marina where we keep our boat, on the same arm as us, is an old classic timber boat that while only about 34' long, and in a 40' berth, has such a long bowsprit and mizzen boom, that the mizzen boom sticks about 8-10' into the channel. It is a bloody nuisance for manouvering into our berth. Sooner or later somebody is going to wipe out the mizzen boom and damage thir own boat. In this instance, I can see why marinas tend to charge on LOA, rather than LOD.
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Old 11-08-2010, 23:18   #13
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It all depends on the marina but most are going for the biggest amount of money they can get. That translates into length overall. Years ago we had a Westsail 32. We got a sublease slip in the 35' row and the marina office was happy with the on deck length that we gave them on the application. That is until the local boat nazi turned us in. The marina kindly gave us 24 hours to find another slip and clear out.

I know it's Oz money, but $1200 a month does seem high.
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:41   #14
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No, no, no we're paying $1,200 per YEAR not per month! Hope that clears this up.

Regards,

Thomas
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Old 12-08-2010, 01:59   #15
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Hi muzzbishop, I have mine in the Gladstone Marina, 'Manihiki' is 38 ft or 11.5m they put her on a 10m berth at $4737 annually, a 12m is $5482 & a 15m is $7173, even if you ended up on the 15m it would cost you $138 pw. Even cheaper you could get on a pile mooring in Auckland creek for $1620 annually. I am on the hard at the moment, for $384 p.m while I rewire, and wait for a few blisters to dry out.
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