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Old 21-03-2016, 10:06   #61
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Re: Boat sinks after collision with whale near Guaymas

Think. BIG GULP, in many ways!
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Old 21-03-2016, 10:09   #62
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Re: Boat sinks after collision with whale near Guaymas

Then someone above mentioned hitting the water with a broom. Not quite, but....
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Old 21-03-2016, 10:21   #63
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Re: Boat sinks after collision with whale near Guaymas

I have recently had the bad fortune of touching a dead Humpback whale that washed up on the beach in Seaside, Oregon. Though fresh (didn't smell bad) it was soft and kind of squishy.

What staggers my imagination is how such a soft creature can "tear open" a fiberglass hull. I see fiberglass boats tossed up for yards across jagged rocks that, but for some deep scratches, were pretty much unscathed. Seems to me it's like driving a nail with a marshmallow.

I can understand an Orca ramming a wooden boat with its head and staving in planking but it is difficult for me see a FG boat getting torn open by skin covered jello.
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Old 21-03-2016, 10:29   #64
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Re: Boat sinks after collision with whale near Guaymas

If they are anything like a Dolphin, they aren't jello when alive, but even if Jello, its tons of Jello and I wasn't there of course but would expect any impact of a cruising boat to be more like Third days was.
Now if your a go fast boat and on plane, I can see where that would be completely different.
I got stupid on delivery of my boat and hit the sand at the side of the channel at the Port St Lucie inlet, I missed a marker and it was an immediate stop from 7 kts, threw everybody down. I didn't run aground as it was a wall I hit, not a slope, sort of bounced off. I'd assume that would be like hitting a whale, and my boat thankfully was undamaged.
Now of course in my case the wall didn't shove back, maybe sometimes whales do?

On edit, maybe they think they are being attacked and react violently, sometimes?
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Old 21-03-2016, 16:10   #65
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Re: Boat sinks after collision with whale near Guaymas

Back in our days of marina living, we saw more than one boat stuff up an entry into their berth and hit the dock with considerable way on. In all cases, the boat rode up over the floating pontoon; some had superficial damage to gel coat, some not so much as that. (This was long before the days of ubiquitous plumb bows which might not fare so well!)

BEcause of these observations, I find it hard to believe that so much damage will occur when striking a sleeping or slow moving whale, even in a FRP hull. The cases where the whale strikes the boat from broadside, or lands upon it whilst broaching, well, that's a different matter, and clearly can cause damage.

Rich Boren's report of striking a whale in his Force 50 FRP vessel with no damage seems to offer some support to this idea.

We often cruise in the company of a great many migrating Humpbacks on the east coast of Oz... often seeing dozens nearby each day. Sometimes they come quite cose,, sometimes they have youngsters with them. They seem to ignore us, and we try to avoid being too close, but sometimes they just are there, less than a boat length away... it is always somewhat sobering!

And we have deliberately hung around in Platypus Bay, where some go to calve and hang out in the Sept-Oct time frame. While we lie at anchor, they will come quite close to us, whether out of curiosity or just by chance. Don't feel threatened at all under those conditions, even when newborns are involved. Once in the Huaraki Gulf in NZ we encountered a cow/calf pair. This was before our experiences with large numbers of whales in Oz, so we hove too to watch. While the mom stood off a few hundred feet away, the youngster swam over and spent about ten minutes circling us closely, diving under us while swimming on its side and looking up at our bottom, and just being nosey. Eventually it seemed that mom whistled or something, cause it suddenly sped off, rejoined her and off they went, leaving us entranced.

Very interesting creatures, certainly capable of causing great harm, but appearing to be benign in their attitude to us. And that's a good thing, 'cause their numbers on the Oz coast are burgeoning.

Jim
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Old 21-03-2016, 16:13   #66
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Re: Boat sinks after collision with whale near Guaymas

We've had numerous whale experiences over the years, and whale attacks are rare. In the case Jim mentioned above, about the steel Roberts 38, the whale had been sleeping on the surface, and the keel just slid up on it. That whale did not attack that boat; it swam away.

Maybe they're irritable occasionally--as humans are, too--and then, of course, they can do a lot of damage, but I really don't think they are generally so inclined if not injured. The pictures we've seen of them attacking whale boats after being harpooned, seem like an act of attempted self defense, rather than predation.

Of course, with so many more cruising boats now, and with Internet for speedy information spreading, we hear sooner about boat/whale conflicts. Queensland even has laws about how to approach whales and you can be fined for being "too close". Having been trapped between a mother and calf and a reef, I really wish they had considered that the whales approach us! and are hard to avoid, sometimes. Nonetheless, it is fairly common to have a momma whale and calf approach and momma lets the calf get a really good look at the sailboat, how it wants to. They (the calves) generally circle the boat, looking at the upper part, and also swim under, just learning it as something to be found in its space sometimes, while Momma stands off a bit.

Ann

On edit: Jim beat me to it! But the general tone is similar, that the whales we've encountered over the years have not behaved belligerently.
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Old 21-03-2016, 16:25   #67
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Re: Boat sinks after collision with whale near Guaymas

Whale hits and sinks JBoat Boat on 2009 Baja Ha Ha

Sometimes I would rather be lucky than good....
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Old 21-03-2016, 16:51   #68
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Re: Boat sinks after collision with whale near Guaymas

The subject of minimalist design for the attachment of keels and rudders has been highlighted in other threads. Basically there are boats built with the idea that anything can happen so the keel and rudder are thusly designed with the resulting cost to be paid. Then there are boats built with the idea that if something unexpected happens it is so rare an event to not warrant any extra strength or cost. There are those who refuse to evaluate this equation with predictable results.

When a boat strikes an immovable object with a high aspect bulb keel the forces at the attachment and load spreading members are much higher than any sailing load. The impact causes point loading that can tear the fiberglass and big holes open up in the hull. When a moderate fin (or full) keel with a wine glass profile fared to the hull hits an immovable object the forces are spread over an area 100-1,000 times larger than the previous case. Thus nothing bad happens in many cases. It is not a matter of luck or fate. It is a matter of design and cost. No doubt someone will latch onto this post and say it ain't so. But it is...
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Old 21-03-2016, 17:23   #69
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Re: Boat sinks after collision with whale near Guaymas

someone invaded my pm box with a lovely accusation that i bashed his morgan oi, ok.
here goes, i quoted a man who helped charlie morgan design his early boats., he also was spozedly charlie morgans friend, this man was designer and builder of what he called the worlds ugliest boats, the yorktown.
ok so i had 4 of em.. love em and had fun sailing em.
he told me that he and charlie had a contest to see who could design the ugliest boat, and he , hank mc kune, won, with charlie second with the OI.

hank mc kune was an olympic swimmer gold medalist who was a tv comedy--first ever --until he left to build 1500 dinghies then victory, champion, all american, thoroughbred, olympian and yorktown were all hank mc kunes designs. looked damned funny but sailed awesome. his best, i thought , was the olympian 34/yorktown 39A, circa 1965-66.
that mold was also used for the coronado 35.
i owned hull number 9 olympian 34.
his victorys are still one design racers.

and so , please advise me as to how i bashed someones boat with this info???
i was gonna write a book about this stuff but i stopped when hank had his massive heart attack and subsequent surgery--in middle of building my yorktown 42 in 1991.
i really want to know how this info is a bashing?? the person invaded my pm box with the accusation..
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Old 21-03-2016, 17:24   #70
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Re: Boat sinks after collision with whale near Guaymas

Quote:
Originally Posted by transmitterdan View Post
The subject of minimalist design for the attachment of keels and rudders has been highlighted in other threads. Basically there are boats built with the idea that anything can happen so the keel and rudder are thusly designed with the resulting cost to be paid. Then there are boats built with the idea that if something unexpected happens it is so rare an event to not warrant any extra strength or cost. There are those who refuse to evaluate this equation with predictable results.

When a boat strikes an immovable object with a high aspect bulb keel the forces at the attachment and load spreading members are much higher than any sailing load. The impact causes point loading that can tear the fiberglass and big holes open up in the hull. When a moderate fin (or full) keel with a wine glass profile fared to the hull hits an immovable object the forces are spread over an area 100-1,000 times larger than the previous case. Thus nothing bad happens in many cases. It is not a matter of luck or fate. It is a matter of design and cost. No doubt someone will latch onto this post and say it ain't so. But it is...
I'm curious, also trying to learn. What are your thought's about encapsulated keels on FG boats? My boat was designed as a coastal boat yet has this type keel. I thought this was one of the best design's but does not seem to be used much in purpose built blue water boat's? Thanks in advance for sharing your thought's.
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Old 21-03-2016, 17:42   #71
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pirate Re: Boat sinks after collision with whale near Guaymas

Personally I like encapsulated keels but the long fin kinda went out of fashion as the narrower bolt on fin was introduced.. quicker build times, cheaper etc.
Big advantage is they don't fall off.
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Old 21-03-2016, 19:11   #72
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Re: Boat sinks after collision with whale near Guaymas

i prefer encapsulated, integral part of hull, deep full keel.
ye can bump a tad n not totally lose.
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Old 21-03-2016, 19:30   #73
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Re: Boat sinks after collision with whale near Guaymas

oops i lied mckune was olympic gold SAILOR.

oops.
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Old 21-03-2016, 19:34   #74
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Re: Boat sinks after collision with whale near Guaymas

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Originally Posted by luciarose View Post
This is correct. Certainly not a 'flimsy Hunter' as quoted above "after an hour of extensive reaseach". The blowhards on this forum who speculate and postulate with no real knowledge are discrgraceful.

Allan is my brother and we're just glad that he's safe. At 5:00am in the dark a sleeping whale doesn't show up too clearly. There was a very large tear in the hull and his pumps couldn't keep up. Sea Boa was a well built boat and Allan is an extremely handy person who has helped many, many fellow cruisers with boat repairs and knowledge. If anyone could have kept that boat from going down, it was Al.

Our thanks to Mexico SAR who were quick to the scene and brought Al back to shore safe and sound where he is now on his way back home.
You know, on this forum if it sinks it has to be a Bene or a Hunter. Bavarias are not far on the list.

Glad to know all are safe. Even steel boats can be damaged seriously or even sunk by whales. I saw only two really big ones and it come like a surprise because I did not know there were big whales on the med. They were the size of locomotives and I took a wide detour
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Old 21-03-2016, 20:13   #75
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Re: Boat sinks after collision with whale near Guaymas

I like encapsulated wineglass hulls with a cutaway forefront and a stern mounted rudder on pintles and tiller.

I also like bananas which affords my young complexion.
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