Boat Buyer Tips

[Macblaze]

OK how about step 2?

I know what I am going to do. I now have to figure out if I can afford it. I need a guide to compare dreams to budgets...anyone got any help for that one?

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

But I think it is tough to predict boat use too far into the future.

Absolutely. In fact, it's not just "tough," it's impossible. That's why you should buy the boat that you are going to use now, and for the next few years--as far ahead as you CAN predict. When the time comes, you can sell that boat and buy one that is suitable for your next phase of life. And at that point you will have a much, MUCH better idea of what the best boat for the next phase of your life will be.

I really think that a lot of the marina-queens that you see sitting at the dock, and never being used, are there because someone decided that they had to buy one--and only one--boat for the rest of their lives. That's just silly. Things change. Our priorities change. Our lives change. That means that what constitutes the "best" boat for you is going to change over time.

Trying to buy the ultimate, final, perfect, dream boat for the rest of your life, when you are still in the early phases of your life, is a useless waste of effort (not to mention money, time, emotion, etc!). Most especially, if it is your first boat, you don't have much experience, and you don't know much about boats. Forget the long term dreams for right now. Get a boat for the way that you really are going to use it during the foreseeable future. When the foreseeable future changes, change boats.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

That's why you should buy the boat that you are going to use now, and for the next few years--as far ahead as you CAN predict. When the time comes, you can sell that boat and buy one that is suitable for your next phase of life.

Agree. And that's what my 1st boat was. When I "outgrew" it I got the current one. But when I was choosing the 2nd one I made sure that it will also work for my anticipated move to FL. Thus the 5' or under requirement, all other requirements being the same or similar. Of course if I hadn't found a good candidate at 5' or under or if a 6' drafted boat was 1/2 the price I'd gotten a deeper drafted boat but all other factors being equal why not kill 2 birds at once?

[weavis]

There is one thing that I noticed in the boat buying habits of myself and of friends.

As day sailors or specific use sailors, we would buy a vessel for the task required. We would get EXACTLY what we needed.

When it comes to extended sailing for periods of time, or even liveaboard, the criteria changes, yet our choosing method sometimes doesnt. We think we buy a boat for the new circumstances, but in reality........... let me explain.

If I were to become a liveaboard, then I would need to change my choosing criteria completely. Yes, I want a good boat for cruising, and I have preferences in that, yet I need to comprehend that the use of the boat will have changed. I need to address the FACT that more than 80% of the time (or more) I will be at anchor or in a marina.

For this reason, a choice of boat will have to be made on a compromise or at least, with MORE emphasis on living space and functionality as a stationary base.

Basically all boats function the same on water... Some better some worse, some a little bit better made, some not so good. But at the root, they float, they sail and they have their quirks and characteristics.

I notice of late, when Im with friends who are looking for boats for extended cruising, that we all subconsciously are looking at vessels that have accommodation that suits, rather than the latest hull shape and speed rating and sail ratios. Maybe this is because we are all over 50 now, or maybe because we know that in the main, we will be parked up a lot. We need a safe boat...... but once the sail is done... we will be on the hook or berthed in a marina for a while.

This past 12 months has seen me aboard a lot of monos and multis. I can only think of two that I would not have under any circumstances. There have been a few that I didnt like but in the main, in general the boats have been fine. I came to understand, that in choosing a vessel, it comes down to fine tuning our choices among a plethora of boats that all do the same thing.

So, next time you are looking for a boat, bear in mind where you will be sailing, what kind of sailing you will do, and if it involves living on board, then keep this in view too........

[JPA Cate]

Weavis,

Come on now! If part of one's love affair with sailing is the actual sailing itself, where you take joy in the responsiveness of the boat, then the performance qualities of the yacht you are considering should certainly be taken into consideration, and can determine the choice, or the entrants to your consideration. And this in spite of the fact that 80% or more of one's time will be spent at anchor or berthed somewhere.

On the other hand, I guess if all you want is what I've heard called an "accommodation vessel", then that's a different matter. Let the vessel suit the buyer, as well as the area in which it will be used.

Knowing what you'll want is important, and I have to agree with DenverDon that one 's earlier boats refine one's choices, and are IMO a good step.

Ann

[JerseyJoe]

We all have our basic criteria we have set forth in boat purchases:

-length
-draft
-rig
-layout
-purpose
-etc

...but what I think is also crucial is who the seller is, his or her motivation to sell, their understanding of the boat, depth of records kept, upgrades and maintenance made and why, etc.

I am far more willing to buy a higher priced boat that meets my basic criteria that was well kept and has thorough records by a thoughtful and informative seller, than one a bit rough shod but cheaper with no records and a tight lipped seller.

In the end you will always find need to do's not seen prior to purchase, but seemingly less in my experience from the open and knowledgeable seller.

That's my two bits.

[JPA Cate]

Right you are, Jersey Joe!

We actually went so far as to print up a list of non-negotiable criteria when we were looking for this boat, as well as what we wanted. The reaction from brokers varied considerably, from "Get outta here, you're wasting my time!" to "If you have some time, I'd like to show you some boats that do not meet your criteria and have you tell me exactly why, so I can form a closer idea of what you want." The latter guy was really quite helpful, and if I ever have to sell this boat, I'd let him sell it for me.

So, I'd recommend getting really clear on what you want, and try to make it easy to find it.

Ann

[JerseyJoe]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Right you are, Jersey Joe!

We actually went so far as to print up a list of non-negotiable criteria when we were looking for this boat, as well as what we wanted. The reaction from brokers varied considerably, from "Get outta here, you're wasting my time!" to "If you have some time, I'd like to show you some boats that do not meet your criteria and have you tell me exactly why, so I can form a closer idea of what you want." The latter guy was really quite helpful, and if I ever have to sell this boat, I'd let him sell it for me.

So, I'd recommend getting really clear on what you want, and try to make it easy to find it.

Ann

Timing also comes into play. So I didn't get an 11-12 meter boat or a cutter rig as planned, and I spent $2k more than my budget parameters, but I did get a boat I felt comfortable with, was clean, had an informative seller and was not over burdened with gadgets, allowing me the choice to customize and enhance where I choose on my dime and time. The boat has more and less than many other boats I viewed, but ultimately it has me, a new owner willing to work with the boat as it is. Waiting for a similar boat to come on the market meeting "my requirements" and "comfort level" was simply a crap shoot I wasn't in the mood to wait for.

Plus it doesn't hurt that I can stand up and sleep straight at a 188 cm tall.

JJ

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Weavis,

Come on now! If part of one's love affair with sailing is the actual sailing itself, where you take joy in the responsiveness of the boat, then the performance qualities of the yacht you are considering should certainly be taken into consideration, and can determine the choice, or the entrants to your consideration. And this in spite of the fact that 80% or more of one's time will be spent at anchor or berthed somewhere.

On the other hand, I guess if all you want is what I've heard called an "accommodation vessel", then that's a different matter. Let the vessel suit the buyer, as well as the area in which it will be used.

Knowing what you'll want is important, and I have to agree with DenverDon that one 's earlier boats refine one's choices, and are IMO a good step.

Ann

Its a funny thing choosing houses boats and cars.

If I were for example to have to make a choice between older catamarans, like Prout, Catalac, Heavenly Twins, Iroquois and others of that ilk..... I would say that within close parameters they sail pretty much the same.
I would not get a Prout because I dont like the layout at all or the dark wood.
Iroquois dont cut it either. It would leave me wih a choice between the Catalac and the Heavenly twins. Given a late model HT27 and a late Catalac 9m......... the choice is purely on the interior at that stage.

Ive found the same with other vessels in a category. Would I have a Benateau or an Oyster? A Hunter or a Catalina? the list goes on.

Dont get me wrong, I enjoy the sailing characteristics of certain vessels more than another but.......

If I could not have a catamaran, I would move straight to a Motorsailer. My favourite right now is a Haber 34c. But I would be equally happy with a Colvic Watson 26 aft cabin. I like the chunkies and the faster sleeker yachts dont cut it even they though they be superior sailing vessels where mine would a plodder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfeIFRdjo_s

[JPA Cate]

Hey, weavis, vive le diference!

I really do understand your point.

Everybody gets to choose what is most important to him/herself. I agree with you that a realistic understanding of the anticipated use of the boat helps guide that, but also think that the accommodations are more important to some people than others due to personal preference and also physical size issues.

Take your nephew's Westerly Centaur, you go aboard for a period of time, you accept it as it is, adapt to it, and use it as well as you can. Why should that process of acceptance and adaptation be different for a different boat?

Ann

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Hey, weavis, vive le diference!

I really do understand your point.

Everybody gets to choose what is most important to him/herself. I agree with you that a realistic understanding of the anticipated use of the boat helps guide that, but also think that the accommodations are more important to some people than others due to personal preference and also physical size issues.

Take your nephew's Westerly Centaur, you go aboard for a period of time, you accept it as it is, adapt to it, and use it as well as you can. Why should that process of acceptance and adaptation be different for a different boat?

Ann

It is the same... only....... its not my boat.. On the other hand a Centaur is one of my favourite small pocket cruisers anyway.....

[cwyckham]

Great advice so far. I would also add that, especially for a first boat, get something that you will use right now. Don't get a fixer upper that will burn you out before you even get sailing.

Buy a boat that suits where you are and what you will realistically be doing with it for the next 2-3 years. Make sure that you will be out enjoying it tomorrow. Make sure that all parties think it's great (eg. both people in the couple, kids, etc.).

Now go use it all the time for a couple years. Expand into more and more challenging conditions, and learn a lot about sailing and yourself.

Now, if you still have great dreams of sailing over the horizon, moving aboard, or whatever, you have the knowledge to buy a boat that you might have for more like 10-20 years. you can even get a fixer-upper now because you know what you're getting into and you know what will be important to you in the long haul.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by cwyckham

Great advice so far. I would also add that, especially for a first boat, get something that you will use right now. Don't get a fixer upper that will burn you out before you even get sailing.

Buy a boat that suits where you are and what you will realistically be doing with it for the next 2-3 years. Make sure that you will be out enjoying it tomorrow. Make sure that all parties think it's great (eg. both people in the couple, kids, etc.).

Now go use it all the time for a couple years. Expand into more and more challenging conditions, and learn a lot about sailing and yourself.

Now, if you still have great dreams of sailing over the horizon, moving aboard, or whatever, you have the knowledge to buy a boat that you might have for more like 10-20 years. you can even get a fixer-upper now because you know what you're getting into and you know what will be important to you in the long haul.

Beaut post!

Actually, we had our first Insatiable and lived aboard for 18 yrs., before the lust for more space (don't say a word, weavis!) grabbed us. We've lived aboard this boat (except for surgery visits to the US) 11 yrs. Which goes to show that if you know what you want and can afford, this is a game you can play a long time, if you DIY.

Ann

[carstenb]

I find that on this board, whenever the "Blue water cruiser" discussion comes up, it tends to center on "heavy cruisers" versus "light cruisers" versus "production boats" versus "multihulls" and how they are going to survive the perfect storm.

But let's get real - If you're sailing the coconut milk run or similar and if you have the equipment to pull down daily grib files (and know how to read them, of course), then you will not get caught in the perfect storm. Matter of fact - ifyou are careful, stick to weather windows etc. you can sail and entire RTW and see more than 30 knts of wind.

Blue water sailors and RTWs, realistically will only see blue water 10-15% of the time - the rest is either coastal or at anchor, or in harbour.

So while we picked our boat for its sailing (and survivability) characterisitcs, we also put "livability and comfort" very high on the list. Because 80-90% of the time - that is what will determine if our RTW is a successful.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Beaut post!

Actually, we had our first Insatiable and lived aboard for 18 yrs., before the lust for more space (don't say a word, weavis!) grabbed us. We've lived aboard this boat (except for surgery visits to the US) 11 yrs. Which goes to show that if you know what you want and can afford, this is a game you can play a long time, if you DIY.

Ann