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Old 17-02-2015, 08:36   #121
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Originally Posted by Canibul View Post
doesn't matter. It's none of your business, any more than what goes on in my home is your business. You don't have to agree with it, or like it. Other citizens do NOT have the legal or moral right to grant themselves permission to access my boat.

Stay off my property and I will return the respect. If my halyard got loose somehow ( doubtful) and bothers you, tell the marina to send one of their trained, insured, professional hands on board to secure it and charge me the hourly rate for that guy for the five minutes it took him. Private citizens? Keep your hands and feet to yourself.
Your best protection against unwanted help is to keep esential things tiptop. Unless somebody will most certainly do so and might have allready done that without you knewing about it. Anyway I most certainly will give help regardless what you think about the privacy of Your property.
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Old 17-02-2015, 09:08   #122
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Originally Posted by Jammer Six View Post
My best defense is to leave you without a clue that would help you solve that problem.

Respecting my property is your duty. It's better for both of us if it's also your choice.

Taking care of my property (or not taking care of it) is my prerogative, not yours.

Expecting you to do your duty towards my property is within my rights.

Trespassing on my property is not within your rights.

Therefore, it's naive of you to think that it would be okay to board anyone's boat except your own, but it is not naive of me to expect you not to trespass on my boat.
On the contrary, I believe your unwillingness to leave a clue is actually providing the best defense for those who would voluntarily protect your property for you.

Per WA RCWs, Criminal Trespassing in the first degree applies only to the occupation of buildings. As such, someone cannot be charged with Trespassing in the 1st degree for boarding your boat. Criminal Trespassing in the 2nd degree applies to a person who "enters or remains unlawfully in or upon premises of another under circumstances not constituting criminal trespass in the first degree." Perhaps 'premises' could be construed to include your boat, however WA law also provides defense for trespassing when that person "reasonably believed that the owner of the premises, or other person empowered to license access thereto, would have licensed him or her to enter or remain". It would be reasonable to believe that a person who's property is at risk of being damaged would want their property protected, and as such would license another person to provide assistance.

However, the laws that would most likely come in to play for boarding someone else's vessel would be vehicle prowling laws. However, those laws only apply to being IN a vessel with the intent of committing a crime.

So, as your wishes are outside the scope of how the majority would expect a reasonable person to act, I'd suggest posting a no trespassing sign as well.

Now, having said that, I have yet to find anything in WA law that would protect someone from liability of any damages that occurred as a result of any voluntary assistance someone may be willing to give. However, that's not the case for everywhere. Some places have extended good Samaritan laws (which normally only apply to assisting an individual) to cover protection of property. For example, this is an excerpt of a law I found in Canada:

"Where, in respect of real or personal property in danger, a volunteer
renders services or assistance to protect or preserve the endangered
property, the volunteer is not liable for damage resulting to the property
alleged to have been caused by an act on the part of the volunteer while
rendering services or assistance..
"
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Old 17-02-2015, 09:16   #123
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Originally Posted by Canibul View Post
doesn't matter. It's none of your business, any more than what goes on in my home is your business. You don't have to agree with it, or like it. Other citizens do NOT have the legal or moral right to grant themselves permission to access my boat.

Stay off my property and I will return the respect. If my halyard got loose somehow ( doubtful) and bothers you, tell the marina to send one of their trained, insured, professional hands on board to secure it and charge me the hourly rate for that guy for the five minutes it took him. Private citizens? Keep your hands and feet to yourself.

For my part of this discussion, I am only talking about being on the topside of someone's vessel (i.e. not entering it) in instances when the boat is facing imminent damage.

The problem with the 2nd part of your statement is that, in my experience, the marina will do nothing until such a time that your vessel is going to cause damage either to the marina itself or to a neighboring vessel.
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Old 17-02-2015, 09:30   #124
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Originally Posted by Jammer Six View Post
My best defense is to leave you without a clue that would help you solve that problem.

Respecting my property is your duty. It's better for both of us if it's also your choice.

Taking care of my property (or not taking care of it) is my prerogative, not yours.

Expecting you to do your duty towards my property is within my rights.

Trespassing on my property is not within your rights.
Jammer, do you have a duty to help others in need? I'm not talking about a slapping halyard -- that's not the discussion I was ever having -- I'm talking about YOU seeing that another boat in imminent danger of serious damage or destruction ... what would YOU do?

Most people would say you have DUTY to try and assist if you can. You appear to be saying, "nope. Let it burn, let it drift onto the rocks, let the headsail flog itself to death." This is what is out of step with the majority of the cruising community.

Assistance could come in the form of alerting the harbourmaster. But not all of us spend much time in nice marinas with commercial services and big government to rely on. We rely on each other. It's called being part of a community ... something you seem unable to grasp.

If you truly would rather see your boat on the rocks, rather than accept any insult to your private property rights, then fine. You are clearly out side the norm, so put up a sign, or as I say, just stay away from others. But you are failing in your DUTY to other cruisers if you apply this absolutist view of property rights to everyone.

And Canibul, your strawman arguments are just that. Yes, judgements are required when dealing with real people in the real world. Sometimes people will make judgements that you don't agree with. That's the price of freedom. I would rather not submit my will (and everyone else's) to black & white dictates of Big Government. But perhaps you would.
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Old 17-02-2015, 09:43   #125
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

Harbormasters are not on the job 24/7. They usually do "regular office hours". Of course, the wind only loosens headsails and makes them flog between 9 and 5.

If someone saves me thousands of dollars by spending five minutes on (NOT in) my boat, or stops it from dragging onto the rocks and becoming a total loss, I'd be grateful, not mad.

Community is a wonderful thing. It reminds me of the "measles vaccination" debate raging here. OK, don't vaccine your kids, but don't send 'em to my kids' school either.
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Old 17-02-2015, 09:46   #126
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

The only thing that this thread (and the slapping halyards one) prove is that if you onto to someones boat to fix something, you should just keep it to yourself.
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Old 17-02-2015, 10:09   #127
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

Post a "No Trespassing Sign".

Most jurisdictions require that you "give notice", either by posting signage or verbally, (or enclosing spaces) to prevent trespass.

This site links to State laws applicable to criminal trespassing on private property.
Trespassing Laws & Signs For All Fifty States | Signs.com
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Old 17-02-2015, 12:13   #128
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Mess with me and I'll come on board and pull your halyards out and "neatly" coil them??? Go ahead. And watch what I do with YOUR halyard. And these are the same people who feel they have some right to decide when and where to trespass on someone else'sproperty
The problem with the halyards occurred because the offending boat owner absolutely refused to respect the rights of other boat owners to peaceful enjoyment of their vessels. People had become frustrated with his refusal to respect their rights and it was a fairly assertive method of bringing to his attention that this was no longer to be tolerated.

Of course they could have gone and got a gun and shot the sorry sod but whilst that response might be approved by a certain segment of society it is hardly a civilized one.
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Old 17-02-2015, 12:24   #129
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Well it's easy to see how anescalation if conflict could rise
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Old 17-02-2015, 15:20   #130
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Originally Posted by Sailmonkey View Post
If my sail or Bimini is flogging, please board my boat and secure it.
Consider putting a sign up on your boat granting everyone permission to board when they see fit. Otherwise, we won't know that we have permission to do as we wish.
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Old 17-02-2015, 15:24   #131
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Originally Posted by Jammer Six View Post
Consider putting a sign up on your boat granting everyone permission to board when they see fit. Otherwise, we won't know that we have permission to do as we wish.
That's clearly not required as it is expected behaviour by the majority.

It's the people who don't want the expected behaviour of the majority to occur that need to make it clear. Otherwise, you really have no recourse or even right to be upset. IMO
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Old 17-02-2015, 15:25   #132
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Per WA RCWs, Criminal Trespassing in the first degree applies only to the occupation of buildings.
I'd be happy to settle for a conviction of 2nd degree. Or 3rd degree. Or whatever the law allows.
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Old 17-02-2015, 15:29   #133
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Originally Posted by Jammer Six View Post
I'd be happy to settle for a conviction of 2nd degree. Or 3rd degree. Or whatever the law allows.
Which, if you read the rest of his post, you wouldn't get.
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Old 17-02-2015, 15:30   #134
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
The only thing that this thread (and the slapping halyards one) prove is that if you onto to someones boat to fix something, you should just keep it to yourself.
It also proves that people read the same post, and then engage in an entirely separate discussion. People will bring fire, loss of life, guns, violence, Ayn Rand and all their other fears up, and talk about that.

I'm just surprised someone hasn't brought the Beatles, Rolling Stones and marijuana as a road straight to heroin up.

This group is a tiny, isolated portion of cruisers around the world. There are cruisers that don't have computers, and cruisers that don't connect to the internet.

And yet, even in this tiny sample, there are people who hold the dead opposite view expressed by some of you.

It astonishes me that there exist those of you who read that, and persist in your view without allowing facts to influence you.

Stay off my boat, I'll stay off yours.
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Old 17-02-2015, 15:31   #135
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Which, if you read the rest of his post, you wouldn't get.
Step aboard. Roll the dice. We're not talking about my conviction, we're talking about yours.

And to quote a good friend of mine, "you may beat the charge, but you won't beat the ride."
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