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Old 15-02-2015, 23:16   #91
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Originally Posted by Jammer Six View Post
What are you talking about?

Perhaps I should add "fear" to the list...
Something simple, like "no trespassing under any circumstances whatsoever" should do it for you.

Most of us accept that we do not go aboard another boat uninvited. In blinkerfluid's first post, he related that he saw a boat with the furler coming undone. He went aboard and secured the furler.

It seems that should that unlikely event occur on your boat that you would prefer everyone to stay off.

The problem, as I see it, is that the needs of the cruising community to help another cruiser and your need to not have your boat interfered with under any circumstances whatsoever are in conflict. In that case, I do not think a sign would be rude. I think it would be respecting both your side of things and ours.

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Old 16-02-2015, 00:41   #92
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

Actually, I was asking about where his fantasies about guns and violence came from. They didn't come from anything I said. I've been trying to keep the discussion from going off the rails, but the inflammatory, fear-driven agenda and rationalization keep getting in my way.

After reading everyone's views here, it seems to me that my best choice, beyond any doubt, is to avoid any type of notice or sign. In this way, none of you will be able to know if it's my boat when you're making your decision whether to trespass or not. If you've read my posts, you know that there are mariners who do not subscribe to these points of view, that not all sailors hold these values, and that, most importantly, you don't know who owns the boat in front of you.

Ann, I see no reason to demonstrate respect for a viewpoint that I don't respect. That would be dishonest, don't you think?

Cate, (Jim Cate, not Ann) read your agreement again. It doesn't say that you can board my boat, or that any random, misguided sailor with delusions of grandeur wandering the docks can board my boat. The idea that you can move my boat around a marina without my permission is comical-- we call that "theft". Perhaps the marina can. The local authorities certainly can. You can't. Ann can't. See the difference? I'm sure that answers your concerns.

This thread has reinforced my belief, and made me aware that I shouldn't post any type of notice, but not for the reason I believed. I shouldn't avoid signs because they're rude, I should avoid them because they are not the most effective tactic available to me.

Thank you.
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Old 16-02-2015, 02:22   #93
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

Say Jammer Six, could you keep us all posted about the movements of your boat ? I want to be sure not to board it should a storm blow in.

One night last October at my marina 3 boats had their jibs turned to ribbons during a storm. It should have been 4 but I boarded a boat without invitation and saved its jib.
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Old 16-02-2015, 09:58   #94
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

Jammer:

Maybe post a phone number on your boat?
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Old 16-02-2015, 10:47   #95
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

So where do you draw the line? If the sight of rubbish offends you, can you board his boat to clean it up to your satisfaction? What if you don't personally approve of the way he ties his fenders up? You feel some right to board his boat in his absence and tidy up the fender, to match the halyards you tidied up to YOUR satisfaction the day before?

Jammer quite simply and correctly told you of his wishes that you stay off his boat. That's his right. How can you argue with someone's desires and wishes about their own property? Be just like us or else, eh? Mess with me and I'll come on board and pull your halyards out and "neatly" coil them??? Go ahead. And watch what I do with YOUR halyard. And these are the same people who feel they have some right to decide when and where to trespass on someone else'sproperty.

I don't want strangers deciding for themselves when to enter my yard, my car, my home, or my boat. Period. I don't really care what their self justification was, it doesn't matter. Have you ever seen a No Tresspassing sign that says 'unless you feel you have a reason'? No. "Stay out" is simple, proper, and that request by the owner should be respected. The marina staff has a legal right to board the boat if there is something that needs addressing. Nobody else should touch it unless asked to do so by someone with the authority to ask. Boats in marinas are private property. That's pretty simple.

Stay off my boat, thank you. And in return I promise to respect your wishes concerning your own property.
Seems pretty straightforward to me.
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Old 16-02-2015, 11:09   #96
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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So where do you draw the line?
IMHO you crossed it
BR Teddy
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Old 16-02-2015, 11:12   #97
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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IMHO you crossed it
BR Teddy
yeah, I can see that I am definitely on the other side of some line from you.
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Old 16-02-2015, 12:08   #98
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

I'd say you draw the line with either threat to life or property damage.
If I see smoke billowing from down below, I'll jump aboard and hopefully at least determine it's un-occupied, maybe if I'm lucky there is a fire extinguisher close by and I might just be able to extinguish the fire.

Personally I won't board someone's boat to secure a slapping halyard, but if I see them I will ask them to and may even tell them the thing kept me awake all night.

I have a dockmate that keeps his windmill running all the time, even though he is plugged into shorepower, I still haven't gone up to him and asked him to secure that noisy thing, but I need to.
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Old 16-02-2015, 12:18   #99
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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I'd say you draw the line with either threat to life or property damage.
A threat to life is always a justification in most legal situations, even up to and including homicide. Property damage? Who decides what consitutes potential property damage? Smoke billowing, okay that's clear cut.

But what if I decide that you are not doing enough to keep toredo worms out of the marina. Okay for me to inspect your boat just to be sure there's no property damage? And who left me in charge of overseeing your property damage, anyhow?

It falls apart when we start letting individuals decide what justifies their own actions. There always seems to be an "But I was just...." or a " Yeah, but..."

it amazes me that people here seem to feel that they have some kind of right to deal with other people's property even when told to leave it alone.

The legal view of it must be pretty clear, I would think. Any legal eagles here have a definition of trespassing?
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Old 16-02-2015, 12:26   #100
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Maybe post a phone number on your boat?
No chance. I'm not advertising anything, and there's no valid reason for it. I don't post my phone number on my car, my home or in rest stop restrooms.

If you saw my home burning or my car was hit by bus, the authorities would contact me.

My boat is no different.

If you "saw smoke billowing" from either my home, my car or my boat, call the fire department, or just watch. It takes a certain kind of fool to run into a burning building with a fire hose or a fire extinguisher. My children were taught at a very early age not to do that.

"I can help, I see smoke, and I have a fire extinguisher!"

More of that arrogance I was talking about.
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Old 16-02-2015, 12:32   #101
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Personally I won't board someone's boat to secure a slapping halyard, but if I see them I will ask them to and may even tell them the thing kept me awake all night.
I'd apologize, buy you a beer, change the way I secured it, make certain it was secured, then check back with you to make sure my new method worked.
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Old 16-02-2015, 12:37   #102
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

Jammer, I apologize for the implication that you might use firearms to repel someone boarding your vessel. How would you behave in that situation? Ask them politely to leave?...

But of course, if you were aboard, the situation would never have developed, would it? You would have re-secured the furling line or dock line yourself, wouldn't you? I think that most of the responses above have addressed the situation where harm was coming to your boat in your absence. Now, if a typical yottie sees such a thing happening, their first response is to correct it before it does further damage to the boat or its neighbors. Most owners would appreciate such an action. I would. But if the hypothetical samaritan does not know of your unusual desire to never be boarded, he will act against your wishes in innocence... hence the folks who think you should post a sign signifying your somewhat unusual requirement.

And to be honest, my thoughts were not mostly directed at flapping jibs or banging halyards in a marina environment. I haven't kept a boat in a marina long term for many years, for we tend to live at anchor. Boats sometimes start to drag when at anchor, and with no one aboard. I (and most other long term cruisers I believe) have boarded a dragging boat and attempted to keep it from grief... successfully, so far. This has not been entirely altruistic, for a dragging boat can damage others... like mine, and who wants to let that develop? All the owners of boats that I (and others) have re-anchored have been grateful.

Finally, regarding the marina agreement: I surely didn't say that that agreement meant that I would be able to move your boat, nor do I think I should be able to do so.

So, I'm going to bow out of this discussion now. I will continue to render aid when I think it appropriate. I hope that I never encounter your boat in distress, because without warning I would likely do something you would find upsetting.

Jim
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Old 16-02-2015, 12:40   #103
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Jammer, I apologize for the implication that you might use firearms to repel someone boarding your vessel.
Accepted, thank you.
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Old 16-02-2015, 12:42   #104
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

By my count, there are at least two of us here, in this thread, who would resent you boarding our boat, and one or two more who would not board your boat to save your jib.

Perhaps we're a minority, perhaps not. No way to tell.
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Old 16-02-2015, 12:56   #105
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

I had someone secure a loose sail for me and they saved me $thousands and would only except my thanks. If I have a slapping line please secure it. I would be very embarrassed to have kept everyone up all night. If yours slaps and your not on the boat I will secure it for you. You can thank me later.
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