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Old 14-02-2016, 17:57   #301
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Well, I'm among those opposed, and I live on my boat more than off during the season.

I wonder how many of those for boarding other's boats for halyards aren't real sailors?
When you say real sailors, are you referring to those who keep their halyards from slapping?
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Old 14-02-2016, 18:02   #302
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

All ye who not be real sailors, sell yer boats now for ye be stinking up the joint !

Yarrrrrrr !
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Old 14-02-2016, 19:00   #303
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

savoir,

I think you might have missed something. I have lived aboard for the past about 30 yrs. in the course of our cruising, and on our own boat we secure everything noisy in a marina, to the extent of halyards, windgen, outdoor speakers for the hifi. We would be embarrassed to do otherwise. AND, I would not board another person's boat to quiet a slapping halyard. The slapping halyard is in the "almighty nuisance" class, but not in the clear and present danger class, and that's where I draw the line. It is clear from Boatman 61's and Dockhead's posts that there is a different standard in their neck of the woods--and I think it's a decent standard, because it honors the feelings of the ones whom the slapping halyards ignore. In their area, if we were there, and with their input, I might modify my behavior to conform to the local standard. However, I'm from the US, and learned when I first started sailing never to board someone's vessel without getting permission.

Now, in a liveabord marina setting, one might easily befriend or just chat up one's neighbors and obtain consent to board in the event of slapping halyards. Especially after a thread like this, where the majority seem to prefer it. But, if permission is not granted, then you have to figure out how to fix the situation without boarding.

RamblinRod might not like it, but use your fertile imaginations, surely you can figure out another two or three ways to do it without boarding. I gave you one, Boatie suggested another.

Ann
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Old 14-02-2016, 19:19   #304
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
savoir,

I think you might have missed something. I have lived aboard for the past about 30 yrs. in the course of our cruising, and on our own boat we secure everything noisy in a marina, to the extent of halyards, windgen, outdoor speakers for the hifi. We would be embarrassed to do otherwise. AND, I would not board another person's boat to quiet a slapping halyard. The slapping halyard is in the "almighty nuisance" class, but not in the clear and present danger class, and that's where I draw the line. It is clear from Boatman 61's and Dockhead's posts that there is a different standard in their neck of the woods--and I think it's a decent standard, because it honors the feelings of the ones whom the slapping halyards ignore. In their area, if we were there, and with their input, I might modify my behavior to conform to the local standard. However, I'm from the US, and learned when I first started sailing never to board someone's vessel without getting permission.

Now, in a liveabord marina setting, one might easily befriend or just chat up one's neighbors and obtain consent to board in the event of slapping halyards. Especially after a thread like this, where the majority seem to prefer it. But, if permission is not granted, then you have to figure out how to fix the situation without boarding.

RamblinRod might not like it, but use your fertile imaginations, surely you can figure out another two or three ways to do it without boarding. I gave you one, Boatie suggested another.

Ann
Nice post. A couple of other things to think about:

1. In our "neck of the woods", no one gets annoyed by slapping halyards. Remember it's windy as hell here -- we're at 50N. Slapping halyards is just one of those things which happen, just like loose docklines, popped out fenders, and all kinds of other things, and with Force 10 storms blowing through here every three days for the last three months, it happens a lot. The ethos here is if you are standing nearby when a thing which needs to be done, needs to be done, you just pitch in and do it. Not much distinction is made about whether it's on your own boat, or on your neighbor's boat, you just do it, and it's not a big deal. Fixing a slapping halyard is just a job, like taking out the trash. I've never heard a single cross word exchanged over it here.

2. I'm also from the U.S. and also learned to ask permission before boarding someone else's boat. I think it's exactly the same here and probably everywhere. I would never, ever step on another person's boat without permission if he's on board (unless I'm rafting up). Of course, Plan A is to ask the owner himself to fix his own slapping halyard, if he's around. Plan B is to call him on his cell phone and tell him he's got a loose halyard and let him know you're willing to fix it for him. Stepping on without permission is definitely Plan C.

3. Great idea to discuss it ahead of time with neighbors. Just part of paying attention to the ethos of the place, and to what other people are doing, and maybe even create a new ethos And get their cell phone numbers
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Old 14-02-2016, 21:15   #305
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Indeed. Classical land person weekend sailor vs. seaman situation.

Land ideas about the inviolable sanctity of fenced territory apply on some weekend sailors' boats. "If I catch you in my yard, I'll shoot you/make you bloody/put you to sleep with fishes/time to meet Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson/ etc." Not just land ideas, but ideas from not the better land neighborhoods -- characteristic of a certain socio-economic/educational level.

But people with more sea time, who are more part of the community of sailors, are quite a bit more relaxed about other sailors on their decks for legitimate purposes.

The fundamental difference is that for a land person, that guy on his deck is alien -- a trespasser -- a stranger -- an enemy. For a seaman, that guy is just another sailor -- different story. You expect the other sailor to behave like a seaman. If he is a sailor. If it's a land person (and thus a person who can't have any good reason to be there) blundering around on my deck, then of course, I would be highly upset, and it's something completely different.


It's been said before, but worth being sure we don't forget about it --

Among seamen, it's generally considered ok to go on a stranger's boat's deck for a legitimate purpose, but ONLY if the owner is gone and you've tried to raise him to ask permission, and NEVER in his cockpit or below or in his lockers except in case of a dire emergency. Some of the discussion above sounded like people were talking about just traipsing onto someone's deck without even checking to see if someone's home -- which is definitely not cool.

To know how to behave, like in many other situations in life, you have to tune in to what others are doing around you. In a marina on a lake with 50%+ ski boats and guys with tattoos and gold chains and pumped biceps -- maybe leave that halyard alone. In Horta or Kiel or around here -- it is quite all right, and no one will say a word, unless it's "thanks".


As to slapping halyards - the land type of person doesn't imagine much the people sleeping in other boats all around -- he's not really part of the community of sailors. The real seaman will get up without thinking about it and fix that slapping halyard on that empty boat, just like he would fix a dock line coming undone or a jib coming unwrapped in a blow, and for the same reason -- because it needs doing, and not out of his own selfish interest. He will do it to save someone else from having to get up and do it, and to save the sleep of everyone else in the harbor, not just his own. If you fix a slapping halyard on his boat while he's gone, he'll thank you for it. Nor will he apologize for having left his halyards slapping -- everyone forgets once in a while, and it's no big deal, because someone will come and fix it, and next time he'll be fixing it for you.

That's the "ordinary practice of seamen" in this case, even if it does violate some land-oriented ideas.
Too funny. You practice with seamen all ya want. ;-)
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Old 14-02-2016, 21:20   #306
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

My pontoon neighbour was out of the country when a big tarp covering his Grand Banks came adrift in a big storm.

A steel grommet was flogging the paint off his planked topsides so it was obvious that stepping aboard was unavoidable - but I still felt really uncomfortable the whole time.

When he got back for some reason I found myself explaining exactly what I'd done, every place I'd put a foot down on his rather dilapidated teak deck, and showed him the places where his topside paint had been damaged.

Guess I didn't want to take the chance he'd feel I'd overstepped the mark - turned out he appreciated that I hadn't just left it to flog - but you can never really be sure how people will react, can you?
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Old 14-02-2016, 22:07   #307
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Bad topic to bring up about those of us that know vaccines are not effective and just make money for the pharmaceutical companies. The CDC even admits that vaccines are for the most part ineffective. And now the BIG question: If you get vaccinated and I choose not to get vaccinated, why are you afraid of me??? Those that get vaccinated SHED the viruses in the vaccines for =/- three weeks, so it is them that should be wearing a mask instead of those of us medical people that choose to not be injected with viruses, thermosal, aluminum and aborted fetal tissue. Definitely off topic in this thread, but not a valid analogy to being a good neighbor in marinas....
Quite an impressive rant but utter nonsense, of course.
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Old 14-02-2016, 23:42   #308
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Well, I'm among those opposed, and I live on my boat more than off during the season.

I wonder how many of those for boarding other's boats for halyards aren't real sailors?
I live on my boat 365 days a year. (maybe 366 this year).

Maybe not a "real" sailor though. Only about 5,000 miles a year.

I'd prefer not to board someone else's boat due to their ignorance. In anchorages we have moved because some people are so rude and inconsiderate of others that they are too noisy to be near.

In a marina it may not be so simple to move.
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Old 14-02-2016, 23:46   #309
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Indeed. Classical land person weekend sailor vs. seaman situation.

Land ideas about the inviolable sanctity of fenced territory apply on some weekend sailors' boats. "If I catch you in my yard, I'll shoot you/make you bloody/put you to sleep with fishes/time to meet Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson/ etc." Not just land ideas, but ideas from not the better land neighborhoods -- characteristic of a certain socio-economic/educational level.

But people with more sea time, who are more part of the community of sailors, are quite a bit more relaxed about other sailors on their decks for legitimate purposes.

The fundamental difference is that for a land person, that guy on his deck is alien -- a trespasser -- a stranger -- an enemy. For a seaman, that guy is just another sailor -- different story. You expect the other sailor to behave like a seaman. If he is a sailor. If it's a land person (and thus a person who can't have any good reason to be there) blundering around on my deck, then of course, I would be highly upset, and it's something completely different.


It's been said before, but worth being sure we don't forget about it --

Among seamen, it's generally considered ok to go on a stranger's boat's deck for a legitimate purpose, but ONLY if the owner is gone and you've tried to raise him to ask permission, and NEVER in his cockpit or below or in his lockers except in case of a dire emergency. Some of the discussion above sounded like people were talking about just traipsing onto someone's deck without even checking to see if someone's home -- which is definitely not cool.

To know how to behave, like in many other situations in life, you have to tune in to what others are doing around you. In a marina on a lake with 50%+ ski boats and guys with tattoos and gold chains and pumped biceps -- maybe leave that halyard alone. In Horta or Kiel or around here -- it is quite all right, and no one will say a word, unless it's "thanks".


As to slapping halyards - the land type of person doesn't imagine much the people sleeping in other boats all around -- he's not really part of the community of sailors. The real seaman will get up without thinking about it and fix that slapping halyard on that empty boat, just like he would fix a dock line coming undone or a jib coming unwrapped in a blow, and for the same reason -- because it needs doing, and not out of his own selfish interest. He will do it to save someone else from having to get up and do it, and to save the sleep of everyone else in the harbor, not just his own. If you fix a slapping halyard on his boat while he's gone, he'll thank you for it. Nor will he apologize for having left his halyards slapping -- everyone forgets once in a while, and it's no big deal, because someone will come and fix it, and next time he'll be fixing it for you.

That's the "ordinary practice of seamen" in this case, even if it does violate some land-oriented ideas.
Really well put.
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Old 15-02-2016, 03:53   #310
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Originally Posted by savoir View Post
As per usual those who oppose boarding to tie halyards do not live on their boat.
Try again. Lived aboard since 2007.

I keep my halyards tied off but unless there is risk to the boat or someones safety, you don't get to board without permission.
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Old 15-02-2016, 13:07   #311
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

What I find very interesting, is those who claim someone who leaves a halyard slapping is a bad neighbour, and yet leaving rotting fruit or fish, or even moving the boat in vigilante retribution, is being a good sea-fairing person.

Huh.

I certainly understand that in a forum like this, anyone can post anything for entertainment, but if there is anyone in this forum who truly feels this adolescent behaviour is acceptable, I'm certainly glad y'all aren't my slip neighbour.

In fact, I'm a little embarrassed to be a part of the same boating community with anyone who truly believes this nonsense is justified.
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Old 15-02-2016, 13:18   #312
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
What I find very interesting, is those who claim someone who leaves a halyard slapping is a bad neighbour, and yet leaving rotting fruit or fish, or even moving the boat in vigilante retribution, is being a good sea-fairing person.

Huh.

I certainly understand that in a forum like this, anyone can post anything for entertainment, but if there is anyone in this forum who truly feels this adolescent behaviour is acceptable, I'm certainly glad y'all aren't my slip neighbour.

In fact, I'm a little embarrassed to be a part of the same boating community with anyone who truly believes this nonsense is justified.
Good morning, Ramblinrod, might we just be stirring the pot a little this morning?

However, I do think that the advocates of getting revenge over a solution are on the wrong track where slapping halyards are concerned.

Using this thread as a basis, I think chatting up one's dock mates is the best way to handle the situation -- and preferably in advance.

So, RR, what do you think is the best way to handle it? Assuming that it is your GF or good lady who is complaining to you that she can't sleep because of the racket, and that you live aboard in this marina, with no other real property?

Ann
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Old 15-02-2016, 13:33   #313
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Try again. Lived aboard since 2007.

I keep my halyards tied off but unless there is risk to the boat or someones safety, you don't get to board without permission.
Yeah, the non live-aboard, non-community, non-sailor, land lubber claims are laughable.

Don't sweat the haters here.

Personally, I have no idea what permanently living aboard full time, vs working and living aboard on the weekend, has to do with this thread whatsoever.

)(Other than maybe that some full time live-aboards have nothing better to do with their time than get all worked up about a halyard slapping in marina, and take it upon themselves to be halyard police.)

I thought the point of living aboard was to enjoy a more stress-free lifestyle where one doesn't get all worked up about every little thing.

Again, some people are so sensitive to any sound they aren't personally making, that they hate the sound of children playing.

I've seen it soooooo many times. I could certainly understand these types getting way overly upset about an errant halyard.

I'll never forget when I was in college and worked at a campsite one summer. In the morning, an old curmudgeon came in to file a formal complaint about noise on an adjacent campsite the night before. He claimed a large group were partying, and kept him awake from 1 - 4 am, playing loud music, smashing beer bottles, and being obnoxious.

I questioned him repeatedly about the campsite number, and he confirmed without a doubt it was 141.

I then advised him that was my campsite; I had 3 friends over from 8-10 pm, where we were having a few beers by a small campfire in a proper pit, where no beer bottles were broken, before I sent everyone home because I had to work the next day, and here I was at 8 am.

For me, I rarely hear halyards clang at all. Which by the way, based on my experience (less than some, more than others) no matter how well tied off, in 40 knots, all halyards make noise. As ususal, I have far bigger and more important things to worry about, than those who let these minor things get to them.
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Old 15-02-2016, 13:40   #314
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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based on my experience (less than some, more than others) no matter how well tied off, in 40 knots, all halyards make noise. .
Yes at 40 knots things bang. But it isn't always blowing 40 knots and when it does all I really hear is the wind. But that doesn't mean the other times at night I need to hear bang, bang, bang while trying to sleep just because some inconsiderate person is too lazy etc. to take care of their lines.

You have a lot of excuses for being a bad neighbor.
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Old 15-02-2016, 13:49   #315
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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What I find very interesting, is those who claim someone who leaves a halyard slapping is a bad neighbour, and yet leaving rotting fruit or fish, or even moving the boat in vigilante retribution, is being a good sea-fairing person.

Huh.

I certainly understand that in a forum like this, anyone can post anything for entertainment, but if there is anyone in this forum who truly feels this adolescent behaviour is acceptable, I'm certainly glad y'all aren't my slip neighbour.

In fact, I'm a little embarrassed to be a part of the same boating community with anyone who truly believes this nonsense is justified.
No, I don't think that nonsense is justified.
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