Boarding someone elses boat

[markpierce]

Now who was the secret admirer who left an orange to rot on my saloon roof!

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

If the slapping halyard is an annoyance to one person, it's probably also an annoyance to others nearby. While one could interpret the actions as self serving, one could also interpret them as benefitting everyone on that dock.

Actually, I've been the other guy.

I remember an incident down on Frying Pan Island in Georgian Bay, a big power boat was parked on the docks at Henry's.

There was a number of large, loud people playing loud music from the open bridge of a large power boat.

Normally, I enjoy some background music, and don't mind others having a good time at all.

The men left the boat in the dinghy to go fishing.

Then the women left the boat to go for a walk.

With nobody on the boat, the music was left playing loudly.

I felt that was wrong, but what the hay.

After about a half hour, the CD developed a skip, and for the next half hour, everyone on the dock got to listen to a 5 second sound byte, over and over and over and over and over and over.....

It finally got the better of me.

I stepped aboard the boat and shut off the CD player.

About 20 people in surrounding boats cheered.

The guys came back with a big Muskie.

A guy on a boat nearby told them about the incident.

I saw a very large man's face turn beat red, veins pop out of their neck and forehead and bellow, "Who the #$%$ was on my boat? Show me!"

The situation looked like it was gonna get ugly real fast.

The guy telling them, shrugged his shoulders.

I was heading over to fess up it was me, before the telling guy took one.

At that instant, the woman returned, advising the men, that the reason they left the boat so long was that they got lost (on a 1/2 mile by 1/4 mile island, IIRC).

The veins returned to normal and the situation defused, as attention was turned to their story.

The moral of the story:

a) The owner was a jerk.
b) I was a jerk.
c) I was more annoyed by the sound than others (even closer).
d) Regardless how annoying it was, I had no right to board the boat.
e) I could have gotten a bloody nose.
f) I could have gotten the telling guy bloody.
g) I could have gotten the large man's baseball glove sized fist bloody. ;-)

Long story short, boarding another persons boat to quiet halyards is wrong, at least in my opinion.

I was taught from a very young age, that two wrongs don't make a right.

But when will I ever learn not to lead with my chin, or a big toothy grin?

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Actually, I've been the other guy.

I remember an incident down on Frying Pan Island in Georgian Bay, a big power boat was parked on the docks at Henry's.

There was a number of large, loud people playing loud music from the open bridge of a large power boat.

Normally, I enjoy some background music, and don't mind others having a good time at all.

The men left the boat in the dinghy to go fishing.

Then the women left the boat to go for a walk.

With nobody on the boat, the music was left playing loudly.

I felt that was wrong, but what the hay.

After about a half hour, the CD developed a skip, and for the next half hour, everyone on the dock got to listen to a 5 second sound byte, over and over and over and over and over and over.....

It finally got the better of me.

I stepped aboard the boat and shut off the CD player.

About 20 people in surrounding boats cheered.

The guys came back with a big Muskie.

A guy on a boat nearby told them about the incident.

I saw a very large man's face turn beat red, veins pop out of their neck and forehead and bellow, "Who the #$%$ was on my boat? Show me!"

The situation looked like it was gonna get ugly real fast.

The guy telling them, shrugged his shoulders.

I was heading over to fess up it was me, before the telling guy took one.

At that instant, the woman returned, advising the men, that the reason they left the boat so long was that they got lost (on a 1/2 mile by 1/4 mile island, IIRC).

The veins returned to normal and the situation defused, as attention was turned to their story.

The moral of the story:

a) The owner was a jerk.
b) I was a jerk.
c) I was more annoyed by the sound than others (even closer).
d) Regardless how annoying it was, I had no right to board the boat.
e) I could have gotten a bloody nose.
f) I could have gotten the telling guy bloody.
g) I could have gotten the large man's baseball glove sized fist bloody. ;-)

Long story short, boarding another persons boat to quiet halyards is wrong, at least in my opinion.

I was taught from a very young age, that two wrongs don't make a right.

But when will I ever learn not to lead with my chin, or a big toothy grin?

I still don't think you did anything wrong. He was the offender with the loud music, especially leaving it on while they were gone.

If you had called the Harbor Patrol or whatever, would they have come to shut off the music? If not, then your choices for peace for you and your dockmates seems pretty limited, you did what you had to do. JMHO.

[sailorboy1]

May some mystery person regularly toss fish onto some of your boats to feed the gulls.

[boatman61]

Methinks mountains are being made from molehills...
Putz.. boat and life in danger coz someone has tied your halyards to a stay to stop them slapping the mast..
Anything.. however ludicrous to provoke.. be funny if it was not so sad..
A generation of newbies will now think that tying halyards to a stay can seriously damage your health.
You won't be the first boat owner I've crossed..

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by Jammer Six

Stay off my boat, I'll stay off yours.

It was fun to read the thread just now from start to finish. It's amazing how one trollish person can lead a whole forum along for days. But i am sure I would have also been opinionated in real time and would have fed the troll.

To me it's pretty obvious- people like this never have a boat listed, so I kind of assume they don't actually own a boat and really don't understand the boating community and ethos of helping each other. And trolls often don't list many specifics that indicate they actually know anything about boating, like this individual.

To anyone still on this thread, please board my boat and silence my halyards, roll up my flogging genoa, let out more anchor chain, and save my canvas if you are so inclined. I'll do same for you.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Methinks mountains are being made from molehills...
Putz.. boat and life in danger coz someone has tied your halyards to a stay to stop them slapping the mast..
Anything.. however ludicrous to provoke.. be funny if it was not so sad..
A generation of newbies will now think that tying halyards to a stay can seriously damage your health.
You won't be the first boat owner I've crossed..

Well we can disagree on this one.

Many boats in protected harbours, have to pull out into open water before raising sail. It is prudent to remove sail covers and untie halyards, before leaving the slip.

However, if a sailor (especially a fairly green one) leaves the slip without noticing that someone has tied off their halyards (in a manner to make it difficult to remove as some here have posted), this could put the boater up at the mast in a pitching sea for much longer than expected.

An MOB is certainly a possible (how likely, who knows) consequence.

IMHO, messing with someone's running rigging, unbeknownst to them, is a serious offence, and could result in a safety issue.

If you don't agree, that's your business, but if someone does make someone bloody for it, though I don't condone violence, I could foresee it happening.

Tie off someone's halyards, and pray they are as nice a bloke as me. (While in reality I would not make someone bloody for it), I could certainly see it happening with some more hot-tempered guys I've met, and frankly, if their crew was put in danger because of these actions, I wouldn't have much sympathy for the pummeled "narcissist" that frigged with their boat, as they had absolutely no right to mess with it.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by socaldmax

I still don't think you did anything wrong. He was the offender with the loud music, especially leaving it on while they were gone.

If you had called the Harbor Patrol or whatever, would they have come to shut off the music? If not, then your choices for peace for you and your dockmates seems pretty limited, you did what you had to do. JMHO.

Not sure I understand. What difference does it make what Harbour Patrol would do? We as boating citizens do not have some of the powers and authority that police enforcement do on land or water.

The choices for peace were:

a) Don't let it bother you.
b) Wear ear plugs or head phones.
c) Move to another area.
d) Board the boat and shut it off.

Options a, b, and c, are the right things to do. Option d) is worng in my opinon.

Anyone is entitled to a differing opinion, but that doesn't make my, or the boat owners opinion (iff offenced) wrong.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Well we can disagree on this one.

Many boats in protected harbours, have to pull out into open water before raising sail. It is prudent to remove sail covers and untie halyards, before leaving the slip.

However, if a sailor (especially a fairly green one) leaves the slip without noticing that someone has tied off their halyards (in a manner to make it difficult to remove as some here have posted), this could put the boater up at the mast in a pitching sea for much longer than expected.

An MOB is certainly a possible (how likely, who knows) consequence.

IMHO, messing with someone's running rigging, unbeknownst to them, is a serious offence, and could result in a safety issue.

If you don't agree, that's your business, but if someone does make someone bloody for it, though I don't condone violence, I could foresee it happening.

Tie off someone's halyards, and pray they are as nice a bloke as me. (While in reality I would not make someone bloody for it), I could certainly see it happening with some more hot-tempered guys I've met, and frankly, if their crew was put in danger because of these actions, I wouldn't have much sympathy for the pummeled "narcissist" that frigged with their boat, as they had absolutely no right to mess with it.

In your scenario where someone is on the hook and the sea's getting up anyone with half a brain would have readied the boat in anticipation just in case.. and while standing at the mast removing the boom cover would surely notice his halyards were tied and deal with them as a matter of course.. mind I'd be annoyed if someone rowed over and untied my halyards so he could listen to the 'Nautical Tinkle' from 50 yards away..
However in a marina slip is a whole different ball game and... if your on a pitching deck tied halyards is the least of your problems..
Mind.. this is the opinion of an aspiring Narcissist....<<<<<<<

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by CarlF

For those of you with fantasies about defending your property with violence. Consider this:

If someone pulled a gun or physically attacked me when I was doing them the simple favor of better securing their unoccupied boat, I'd end up owning their boat.

My lawyers would probably charge me a good bit more than the boat was worth - but they'd find a way.

And it would be worth it

Sailors have a duty to watch over each other -- and their boats. It has always been so.

OK, I have to disagree with your last sentence.

Who appointed you anyone's keeper?

I certainly didn't authorize you to keep watch over me, in fact, I would appreciate it very much if you (and everyone else) watched themselves instead. I'm perfectly capable of watching over what I'm doing thank, you very much

I believe all boaters have a duty to offer assistance in an emergency, and every boater has every right to deny said assistance.

I have rescued / towed at least a dozen boats, sometimes in very serious situations, but would never INSIST someone accept. I remember once watching some kids in a canoe tip over in open water. We watched for a while as they tried to right the boat. When we (one of about 30 boats in the anchorage) realized they were struggling we raised anchor and went over.

As we slowly motored up, they were still laughing but showing signs of fatigue. I asked, "Do you require assistance?" One guy, showing off in front of the girls, joked he tought this was the proper way to canoe. I asked, "Last offer, do your require assistance." The girl that was struggling most at this point realized what was happening, and said "yes".

We brought them aboard, towed the canoe (inverted) to shallow water, let them off, and went back to the anchorage.

So I have a question for all here, and please dig deep, if everyone in the water said, "No" would I have had the right to insist.

I hope your answer is "No", otherwise, if you have a nicer boat than mine, I'm going to assist that I commandeer it because I think you are not a capable sailor and may be in distress.

See what I mean?

No boater has any right to mess with another boaters stuff, if they are told not to. By doing it without permission, you are denying the owner to say "No".

So one has to be very careful before boarding a boat, to ensure that the invasion of privacy and infringement on freedoms and liberties, is in fact warranted.

In my opinion, a slapping halyard (nor a skipping CD) is not sufficient criteria, no matter how many it is annoying.

Even if a crew calls a Mayday for a boat, and is airlifted off, the captain has every right to stay aboard. It may be ill-advised in someone else's opinion, but he has that right.

Whether anyone particularly likes it or not, (and thank God for our freedom to do so) a boat owner has the right to not tie their halyards, regardless how unneighbourly anyone may think that is.

Nobody has a right to board a boat in a non-emergency, no matter how many people are affected.

Personally, I would welcome (some people) to board my boat to fix something that truly needs fixing.

I have that right.

I also have the right to deny anyone the privilege to board my boat. (Of course some authorities have a right to board my boat without permission.)

And yes, I have the right to let my halyards slap, regardless of who it annoys, if I am not violating any laws (which it may be). Nobody, other than the property authorities has the right to take the law into their own hands.

Thankfully, some of us are civilized enough to no longer settle disputes in the street at high noon.

[RaymondR]

For those of you who believe that your rights to be protected from or retaliate for trespass I say that trespass in relation to property rights are not what they used to be in the old "bounds of heaven to hell" days.

If you go ahead and start blasting away at someone for entering upon your property or do them physical harm, or even threaten them with it, you may find the authorities and the courts take a more balanced viewpoint on what was an appropriate response than what they formerly did.

It is now recognised that people have a right to live in a decent environment which includes one free from annoying noises and other nuisances. Consequently, you may find that their trespass is of far less consequence than your retaliation when it comes to policing authorities or courts.

Probably more prudent to apologise for the rattling halyard and promise to be more thoughtful in the future.

[Badsanta]

People will do as they will. If you step on my boat because of slapping halyards, loose lines or a faulty radio, yes I will turn red and stomp over to your boat and offer my apologies for my being careless and thankyou for taking the time and concern for my property. Its the goldenrule treat people the way you want to be treated. LOL, I will remember the fish and orange. Great idea.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

Tie off someone's halyards, and pray they are as nice a bloke as me.

If you were a nice bloke, you'd have tied off your own halyards.

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

OK, I have to disagree with your last sentence.

Who appointed you anyone's keeper?

I certainly didn't authorize you to keep watch over me, in fact, I would appreciate it very much if you (and everyone else) watched themselves instead.

I'm pretty capable of watching over what I'm doing thank, you very much

I believe all boaters have a duty to offer assistance in an emergency, and every boater has a right to deny said assistance.

I have rescued / towed at least a dozen boats, sometimes in very serious situations, but would never INSIST someone accept. I remember once watching some kids in a canoe tip over in open water. We watched for a while as they tried to right the boat. When we (one of about 30 boats in the anchorage) realized they were struggling we raised anchor and went over.

As we slowly motored up, they were still laughing but showing signs of fatigue. I asked, "Do you require assistance?" One guy, showing off in front of the girls, joked he tought this was the proper way to canoe. I asked, "Last offer, do your require assistance?" The girl that was struggling most at this point realized what was happening, and said "yes".

We brought them aboard, towed the canoe to shallow water, let them off, and went back to the anchorage.

So I have a question for all here, and please dig deep, if everyone in the water said, "No" would I have had the right to insist?

I hope your answer is "No", otherwise, if you have a nicer boat than mine, I'm going to insist that I commandeer it because I think you are an incompetent sailor and your vessel, your person, and crew, require my assistance, regardless of your opinion.

See what I mean?

No boater has any right to assume authority or master over another's vessel if they are told not to.

By doing it without permission, you are denying the owner to say "No".

To proceed, could be declared an act of piracy.

I know this likely sounds extreme to a lot of people, but it's the principle not the details.

Picture yourself off the coast of Somalia, and a high speed boat comes up along side, and some guys come aboard without your permission to silence your halyards. The only real difference here is geography.

So one has to be very careful before boarding a boat, to ensure that the invasion of privacy and infringement on freedoms and liberties, is in fact warranted.

In my opinion, neither a slapping halyard (nor a skipping CD) is sufficient grounds, no matter how many it is annoying.

Even if a crew calls a Mayday for a boat, and is airlifted off, the captain has every right to stay aboard. It may be ill-advised in someone else's opinion, but he has that right.

Whether anyone particularly likes it or not, (and thank God for our freedom to do so) a boat owner has the right to not tie their halyards, regardless how unneighbourly anyone may think that is.

Nobody has a right to board a boat in a non-emergency, no matter how many people are affected.

Personally, I welcome (some people) to board my boat to fix something that truly needs fixing.

Others, I do not welcome aboard my boat for any reason.

I have that right.

In our marina, I hold spare keys to many people's boats with expressed authority to board their boat, for any reason I deem worthy. In this case, they have given me the right to do so, and I would still not board their boat to tie off halyards, unless someone else complained. (And, I would certainly mention it to them on their return, giving them the opportunity to change their practices.)

I also have the right to deny anyone the privilege to board my boat. (Of course some authorities have a right to board my boat without permission.)

And yes, I have the right to let my halyards slap, regardless of who it annoys, if I am not violating any laws (which it may be, and BTW, I have the right to do that too).

Nobody, other than the proper authorities has the right to take the law into their own hands. This is why we have laws in civilization, so people don't.

Thankfully, some of us are civilized enough to no longer settle disputes in the street at high noon.

You are straying far from the original question.

You are now discussing rendering aid to people. Yes, they have a right to refuse your assistance. That's completely different than the original question.

If you leave your boat in a condition that it potentially threatens damage to another boat on your dock or you leave it with a loud halyard slapping or the stereo playing, your "rights" end when you walk away from the dock.

At that point you're a public nuisance, the nicer option is to quietly pick up after you, but if you insist on being an ass, they could simply call the authorities and let them fine you for disturbing the peace. From what I've seen happen to others, they will come back and ticket you day after day after day. They don't care if you knew about it or not, they'll just keep writing tickets.

If there's one thing the great state of Commiefornia knows how to do, it's generate revenue via fines and penalties.

[CarlF]

"Nobody has a right to board a boat in a non-emergency, no matter how many people are affected."

Huhh? You certainly assert a lot of "rights". It must be exhausting to protect all of them.

How did you come up with this "right"? What you describe is not trespassing unless there was notice or it was posted - and even then, probably not. So where does this "right" come from?

But never mind. This thread isn't about "rights" - it's about common courtesy and community, And getting along.

I would certainly hope another sailor would go onto my boat to fix a slapping halyard. And I'd be terribly embarrassed if they didn't and let my boat keep everyone awake.

I doubt I am the only one who feels this way.