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Old 10-02-2016, 10:14   #256
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Agree with Ann here. You are so far out of the norm that you really should put up some sort of sign. Otherwise a Good Samaritan will suffer your wrath.

But the thing that really bothers me is that Jammer would allow a fellow cruiser's boat to come to harm even when it is easily within his/her ability to help. This to me makes you a danger. It parallels the vaccination discussion happening in Canada/USA right now. People who choose not to vaccinate, or in this case to assist others, are not just impacting themselves, but have an effect on everyone around them.


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Bad topic to bring up about those of us that know vaccines are not effective and just make money for the pharmaceutical companies. The CDC even admits that vaccines are for the most part ineffective. And now the BIG question: If you get vaccinated and I choose not to get vaccinated, why are you afraid of me??? Those that get vaccinated SHED the viruses in the vaccines for =/- three weeks, so it is them that should be wearing a mask instead of those of us medical people that choose to not be injected with viruses, thermosal, aluminum and aborted fetal tissue. Definitely off topic in this thread, but not a valid analogy to being a good neighbor in marinas....
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Old 10-02-2016, 10:35   #257
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Harbormasters are not on the job 24/7. They usually do "regular office hours". Of course, the wind only loosens headsails and makes them flog between 9 and 5.

If someone saves me thousands of dollars by spending five minutes on (NOT in) my boat, or stops it from dragging onto the rocks and becoming a total loss, I'd be grateful, not mad.

Community is a wonderful thing. It reminds me of the "measles vaccination" debate raging here. OK, don't vaccine your kids, but don't send 'em to my kids' school either.
Your vaccine analogy is at best lame! If your kids are vaccinated, why are you afraid of mine that aren't?
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Old 10-02-2016, 10:45   #258
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

vaccinations and sailing are not related nor affiliated nor is having a vaccination same as saving a boat in a blow or otherwise. pure politics and trolling.
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Old 10-02-2016, 15:30   #259
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

This is a much more tricky issue than one might believe.

I am constantly torn over this conflict. I have taken steps to attempt to save someone's boat, knowing full well, that I could get in trouble over it. I am willing to take that risk. I will not board someone else's boat to silence halyards, as that is clearly trespassing solely for my benefit.

It is the nature of many people (myself included), to offer help unsolicited.

Notwithstanding, boarding a boat without permission is trespassing.

Nobody has any right to board anyone's boat without permission.

If you board someone's boat, you could get shot, if they mistake you for an intruder. Fortuantely, we don't have many boaters packin' heat at our marina.

When I leave my boat, I tie off my halyards (usually).

If I am sleeping on my boat, I often leave them untied.

First, I enjoy the sound as I do wind chimes.

Second, I use them as a wake-up alarm that the wind has picked up, so I should check the lines and fenders.

When a slip neighbour mentions my halyards were noisy, I politely explain my reasons, and that is usually that.

Their right to quiet is no greater than my right to hear my halyards slap when the wind picks up.

Halyard slap is a far cry from imminent risk of damage; it would generally take quite some time. In the kind of wind that would cause rapid damage, nobody is gonna be sleepin' anyway.

I don't believe boarding someone's boat to prevent halyard slap is helping the owner. It is more likely solely for the boarders own personal comfort.

Another, non-invasive solution without boarding someone's boat without permission, is to put in ear plugs. Or if one doesn't like the sounds of boats in a marina, they can choose to be somewhere else.

Even the best of intentions can go wrong.

If one adjusts lines because a boat is bumping a dock and that boat comes loose in the night, (or is left hanging at low tied) then the question is whether it damaged because you touched it and did something wrong.

All I can say is, nobody is welcome to board my boat to prevent halyard slap. I would be appreciative if they fixed a problem that would cause imminent damage, as long as they did it right and didn't cause even more damage.

Once I was launching a boat on a steep ramp. I backed to the crest of the ramp and stopped. I had already removed the security chain on the bow eye.

A fellow I knew who was watching, hollered forward that we would trip my winch lock, AS HE DID IT!.

My boat then slid off the trailer and skidded down the concrete ramp into the water to the end of my winch strap.

I was very upset that he did not ask permission to mess with my property first, and give me the opportunity to say NOOOO!

When we first started boating we had a few occasions while docking, where strangers (and even friends unfamiliar with our docking procedures) offered to take docklines, who have caused way more harm than help.

We have had The Talk, with our slip neighbours, who now know what to do to "help us" when we come in to our regular slip.

When we come up to a dock and a stranger offers to take a line, we ask them to stand clear up forward and "fend off the boat" if it comes too close to the dock. They feel like they are helping, and we don't have somebody pull a boner that hurts rather than helps.

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Old 11-02-2016, 06:17   #260
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

someone needs to reread their mission statement:

"To maximize boater enjoyment, .............................."
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Old 11-02-2016, 06:56   #261
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
someone needs to reread their mission statement:

"To maximize boater enjoyment, .............................."

Amen,
if you need slapping halyards to alert you to weather changes then your not to attuned to your environment.....or can't hear the environments over the slapping halyards.


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Old 11-02-2016, 22:31   #262
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

It all goes to intent, if you go aboard someone else's boat with the intent to prevent harm go for it and bugger the naysayers. If your intentions are not good stay off.
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Old 12-02-2016, 00:18   #263
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

Eh, I've always been of the idea that if I can quickly solve a problem that will damage your boat, I'll jump on and do it. If it's just slapping halyards, no. A "Golden Rule" kind of thing.

Honestly, I've seen folks trying to dock $1mil+ boats that can't tie a cleat knot. It's in my best interest to keep them from smashing my boat. I'll re-tie a bad knot in a minute if it keeps my boat safe.
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Old 12-02-2016, 18:53   #264
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
someone needs to reread their mission statement:

"To maximize boater enjoyment, .............................."
Nope, it is...

To maximize boater enjoyment, pride of ownership, and asset value retention by enhancing the aesthetics, safety, and performance of power and sailing vessels in South Central Ontario.

That is the mission statement of my business, and it is true.

I perform free inspections, offer DIY advise, conduct DIY seminars, and write DIY articles for boating magazines.

In reality I do more in a year to maximize boater enjoyment, than the average boater does in a lifetime.

In my experience, based on the post and actions by others, the motive behind boarding a boat to silence slapping halyards is rarely to benefit the boat owner, but a self-serving purpose, which I do not condone.

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Old 12-02-2016, 19:06   #265
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Nope, it is...

To maximize boater enjoyment, pride of ownership, and asset value retention by enhancing the aesthetics, safety, and performance of power and sailing vessels in South Central Ontario.

That is the mission statement of my business, and it is true.

I perform free inspections, offer DIY advise, conduct DIY seminars, and write DIY articles for boating magazines.

In reality I do more in a year to maximize boater enjoyment, than the average boater does in a lifetime.

In my experience, based on the post and actions by others, the motive behind boarding a boat to silence slapping halyards is rarely to benefit the boat owner, but a self-serving purpose, which I do not condone.

Ramblin Rod
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If the slapping halyard is an annoyance to one person, it's probably also an annoyance to others nearby. While one could interpret the actions as self serving, one could also interpret them as benefitting everyone on that dock.
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Old 12-02-2016, 19:26   #266
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

For those of you with fantasies about defending your property with violence. Consider this:

If someone pulled a gun or physically attacked me when I was doing them the simple favor of better securing their unoccupied boat, I'd end up owning their boat.

My lawyers would probably charge me a good bit more than the boat was worth - but they'd find a way.

And it would be worth it

Sailors have a duty to watch over each other -- and their boats. It has always been so.

.
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Old 12-02-2016, 19:33   #267
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

Who among us has not lost a night's sleep at some time in our life?

To me, I think if you're in a marina and the halyard slapping annoys you, take it up with the marina manager if you're unwilling to ask the boat owner yourself. Follow up a verbal request with a written note, (keep a copy), and I'll bet the marina will be your go between, and that there's something in the marina contract about your cooperating with them, so that they will have some clout with the offender...

Frankly, I think the concept of using the halyard slap for an early warning system is silly, and an excuse for anti-social behavior by the time you start fantasizing and posting about making someone bloody. One starts hearing the wind in the rigging pretty early in its getting up, and that will wake you. However your annoyance still does not have the right to board someone's boat, short of an emergency--a clear urgency. Slapping halyard does not meet that criterion.

Ramblin Rod, you make quite a point of your being a big helper to other boaties, but when you are threatening physical violence over an imagined situation, it makes it seem to me that maybe your're just a friend to the boaties who pay you money. Your rights stop when your clenched fist is still on your side of the other guy's nose. You would rightfully be charged with assault.

Ann
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Old 12-02-2016, 19:55   #268
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

Amazing...... One has the RIGHT to let their halyards slap and annoy everybody around them.

Just because a person has the RIGHT to be an *******, doesn't mean they should.

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Old 12-02-2016, 21:01   #269
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate View Post
Who among us has not lost a night's sleep at some time in our life?

To me, I think if you're in a marina and the halyard slapping annoys you, take it up with the marina manager if you're unwilling to ask the boat owner yourself. Follow up a verbal request with a written note, (keep a copy), and I'll bet the marina will be your go between, and that there's something in the marina contract about your cooperating with them, so that they will have some clout with the offender...

Frankly, I think the concept of using the halyard slap for an early warning system is silly, and an excuse for anti-social behavior by the time you start fantasizing and posting about making someone bloody. One starts hearing the wind in the rigging pretty early in its getting up, and that will wake you. However your annoyance still does not have the right to board someone's boat, short of an emergency--a clear urgency. Slapping halyard does not meet that criterion.

Ramblin Rod, you make quite a point of your being a big helper to other boaties, but when you are threatening physical violence over an imagined situation, it makes it seem to me that maybe your're just a friend to the boaties who pay you money. Your rights stop when your clenched fist is still on your side of the other guy's nose. You would rightfully be charged with assault.

Ann
Hi Ann,

I understand your response.

The issue with an internet based forum, is we don't personally know the individual, and we attempt to formulate an opinion based on limited input.

I know I am not the most politically correct poster, and often pose differing opinions, sometimes, not always, just to show others that theirs may not be the only valid perspective.

The point I was trying to make, perhaps ineffectively, was that this is a serious offence, and could have significant safety implications, if one were to leave the slip unaware (that someone had tied their halyards in knots).

I have been present when people have gotten annoyed when someone else's halyards were slapping, on several occasions in my lifetime.

On some occasions, I agree the halyards were very noisy. On other occasions, I thought the offended individual was overly sensitive.

Rarely was that person concerned for the integrity of the other boater's halyards. They were simply annoyed at the noise and let it bug them.

Let it bug them to the point where they did something wrong. (Boarding another persons boat to tie off halyards, especially, but no only when, the sound wasn't all that offensive, at least to me.)

I have been around a lot of grumpy fuddy duddies, that can't stand the sound of others enjoying themselves, even hearing children playing. They wouldn't be happy if Publisher's Clearing House walked up and gave them a $10M check, cantankerous over how much tax would they would then have to pay.

So when I hear about someone boarding some else's boat, to tie off halyards, I think to myself, maybe the halyard slapping boat owner was an A hole, inconsiderate to others. Or maybe the other person was the obnoxious A hole who believes the world should be exactly and only the way they want it.

There is more than one perspective in every scenario, involving more than one person.

Regardless, in any case, it does not give anyone the right to board another persons boat to tie off halyards, anymore than the boater has a right to make them bloody for doing so. Perhaps one is more severe than another, but really, it's just a matter of degree, and based on someone's perspective.

I don't condone violence; tend to avoid it if at all possible, and was just trying to make a point, perhaps badly.

Notwithstanding, if I catch someone on anyone's boat tying off halyards, regardless of how much noise they were making, my opinion is that the boat owner should have tied off their halyards, but I'm not quite sure who the bigger A hole is.

Ramblin Rod
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Old 12-02-2016, 21:15   #270
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Re: Boarding someone elses boat

^^^

Thanks for letting me know I can be blunt with you.

I definitely agree that just because a person is aggravated by a halyard slapping is not an adequate excuse to board a stranger's boat without being invited.

Ann
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