Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-10-2013, 08:06   #121
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 27
Re: Bluewater Cruisers for under $15,000

I don't know bluewater from brown, but I do know that the cruising lifestyle is something I would enjoy. I've done the RVing thing for nearly 3 years visiting 1/2 of the National parks in the lower 48 - it was fantastic! Now, I want to cruise in a sailboat with no more experience than sailing a 19 foot a few times (go ahead, I hear all of you old salty members laughing). I've been lurking about this forum and others for a while, reading blogs, watching YouTube videos of other cruisers' experiences; heck, I even have the Annapolis Sailing School videos around here somewhere all of
which have taken my perspective from Captain Ron type cruising to more serious expectations. Nonetheless, I will be purchasing a 38 to 40 foot cruiser in the near future - I am holding out for a nice Out Island 41 in my price range (~$50k). At this point I have no delusions regarding the amount of work, danger, etc. that is involved. I do have several concerns but most of them will be overcome as I continue my education with some ASA courses and other training. (At some point I want to become an ASA certified instructor so that I can teach at some of the sailing schools along my cruising route for part of the year to earn some easy scratch.)

For other newbies I say that the real concern you should have is income while cruising to finance the inevitable repairs, living expenses, etc. The "dream" of living off $500 a month is just that IMO; a more realistic minimal expectation is $1,000 - $1,500 per month; think insurance, fuel, food, docking/anchorage/mooring, etc. Finding a nice boat, assuming you are not picky, is the easy part - my criteria:

Is the boat structurally sound?

Can I do most of the grunt labor involved in getting it ready to cruise; i.e. electrical, sanding, varnish, painting?

Can I get the things that need a professional done within my budget; i.e. rigging (I've seen estimates of up to $4,000), sails (1 main = $2,500)?

And, most importantly, can I get going within 12 months - I'm 51 this year and don't have time to waste?

One of my biggest confusions is what differentiates a cruiser from a live-aboard to the marinas who seem to refuse to serve any live-aboards? I need a place to work that has Internet connectivity for a month or two or three depending on the client and I still don't understand how a marina will decide if I am a live-aboard or a "transient" for being there in the boat for 3 months?
__________________

__________________
GreyBeardVA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 09:31   #122
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,391
Re: Bluewater Cruisers for under $15,000

Hi GreyBeard,

Looks like to me you have realistic goals, working out a plan to get there and asking good questions.

My comments below.

Skip

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreyBeardVA View Post
I don't know bluewater from brown, but I do know that the cruising lifestyle is something I would enjoy. I've done the RVing thing for nearly 3 years visiting 1/2 of the National parks in the lower 48 - it was fantastic! Now, I want to cruise in a sailboat with no more experience than sailing a 19 foot a few times (go ahead, I hear all of you old salty members laughing).

Not laughing here. We all have to start somewhere. As long as you don't tell us you're planning to buy a 40', top of the line boat, in perfect condition, ready to sail and, with no experience, you want to leave next week to make a nonstop solo sail around the world.

I've been lurking about this forum and others for a while, reading blogs, watching YouTube videos of other cruisers' experiences; heck, I even have the Annapolis Sailing School videos around here somewhere all of
which have taken my perspective from Captain Ron type cruising to more serious expectations. Nonetheless, I will be purchasing a 38 to 40 foot cruiser in the near future - I am holding out for a nice Out Island 41 in my price range (~$50k).

Good boat, good value, giant living space. Just be aware of the limitations. Very shoal draft so opens a lot of options in areas like the Bahamas but they don't sail to windward.

At this point I have no delusions regarding the amount of work, danger, etc. that is involved. I do have several concerns but most of them will be overcome as I continue my education with some ASA courses and other training. (At some point I want to become an ASA certified instructor so that I can teach at some of the sailing schools along my cruising route for part of the year to earn some easy scratch.)

For other newbies I say that the real concern you should have is income while cruising to finance the inevitable repairs, living expenses, etc. The "dream" of living off $500 a month is just that IMO; a more realistic minimal expectation is $1,000 - $1,500 per month; think insurance, fuel, food, docking/anchorage/mooring, etc. Finding a nice boat, assuming you are not picky, is the easy part - my criteria:

Is the boat structurally sound?

Good start unless you want a multi year project. Most things are fixable with a little time and money but some things are only fixable with a lot of time and/or money, some to the point that it isn't worth it even to get a free boat. Biggies to look for that are usually a deal breaker and go the basic structure of the boat: wet core in the decks; rotten or detached bulkheads, floors and other structural parts; complete interior replacement.

Things that may cost but not more than the boat and can be done on your schedule: new rigging, new engine, new sails, paint and varnish, most cosmetics.



Can I do most of the grunt labor involved in getting it ready to cruise; i.e. electrical, sanding, varnish, painting?

Certainly if you have the skills then that's SOP for most cruisers. Do the unskilled stuff yourself, do any of the skilled stuff you know, bring in the pros for the skilled stuff you don't know.

Can I get the things that need a professional done within my budget; i.e. rigging (I've seen estimates of up to $4,000), sails (1 main = $2,500)?

For a 41 sloop rig $4000 for new standing rigging is a good estimate. New furling gear, new fittings, etc will add more.

You might get a new main with no options, bells or whistles for $2500 but I would plan on $3000 or a bit more.

And, most importantly, can I get going within 12 months - I'm 51 this year and don't have time to waste?

Depends on the boat you end up with, how nitpicky you get with the details and how much time you can spend every week doing the work. Get a boat with no major issues, you fix just the basics and can work on it every day then yes, 12 months should be plenty. But remember the boat repair rule of thumb, also known as the 4th corollary to Murphy's Law, "every job on a boat takes twice as long and cost twice as much as you originally estimated."

One of my biggest confusions is what differentiates a cruiser from a live-aboard to the marinas who seem to refuse to serve any live-aboards? I need a place to work that has Internet connectivity for a month or two or three depending on the client and I still don't understand how a marina will decide if I am a live-aboard or a "transient" for being there in the boat for 3 months?

No exact legal or commonly accepted definition. Basically you are a liveaboard at a marina if they say you are. In practice it usually comes down to how long you stay in conjunction with how well you get along with the marina manager. You come in as a transient cruiser and want to stay. If you keep your boat and dock area clean and all your junk put away, don't cover the lifelines with laundry every day, don't stagger down the dock drunk singing bawdy songs at 3 am, don't argue with the neighbors, but I think you get the picture. Then you might be considered a "transient" for a long time.

__________________

__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 10:20   #123
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ontario, Canada
Boat: Ericson 27
Posts: 75
Re: Bluewater Cruisers for under $15,000

Quote:
Originally Posted by NahanniV View Post
Tomi:

Here's one in your area:

Search Results

Hughes 38, same as Fatty Goodlander's.

AD says $2500. I don't know anything about it, might be worth a call.
There are a lot of these boats in your area.

nice - and Thanks for the effort! Unfortunately a misprint - sold for mid-20's.
__________________
Tomi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 12:38   #124
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3
Re: Bluewater Cruisers for under $15,000

I’m a newbie who is doing the same thing the OP is looking to do. To answer the question “can you buy a “bluewater” boat for $15K”? Well it depends on what your definition of a “bluewater” boat is. And I’m not talking about type/make/model. I mean the condition of the boat as you buy it and all the extra gear needed to make offshore passages.

First you have to differentiate between the boat and what I call “cruising equipment”. After you have the boat in basic working order then you have all the cruising equipment to buy on top of that. Things like a life raft, wind vane, SSB, larger battery bank, solar, high efficiency refrigeration etc. Basically all the fitting out you need to do beyond what you would need on a costal cruiser. This additional equipment can easily set you back another $25-50K depending on your skills and ability to do work yourself. Now some of the more “salty” members of the cruising community will tell you that you don’t need half of that stuff. And that’s fine. But you need to decide what you want and what you need and make a list of it to get a feel for how much the total cost is going to be before you make an offer on a boat you just fell in love with.

In the 35-40’ range you are looking at it’s going to be $50-75K for a boat that needs (fairly) minimal work and can be taken out for costal cruising. On top of that I would budget 15-20% for misc things to get the boat up to snuff. That’s just to get you a good set of ‘bones’. Then you have to add the ‘offshore’ cruising equipment on top of that. For $15K you can find a boat (I did) but they are going to require a lot of labor and $$$ before they are ready to go offshore.

I started out with a budget of $50K to buy a “project” boat in the 40’-50’ range. I plan to take two years to fix/fit it out then sail for several years, returning to work afterwards. I’m only 32 so I am starting this a little earlier than most. The boat I ended up with is slightly smaller @34’, 40’ LOA incl. the bowsprit. I was originally looking at larger boats but after looking at quite a few boats and thinking about the fact that 95% of the time there will just be two of us, and the fact that all things boat are charged by the ft, I think we made the right choice going with the smaller boat.

Most things have been replaced recently (engine, sails, rigging, decks are all new), it does however need about 30% of the interior teak replaced due to water damage. And I say 30% because I see about 10% and I’m sure when I tear into it that it will be at least three times worse. The bulkheads are good however.

Needless to say sailboats are A LOT more expensive to own/maintain once you start to scratch the surface in your research. So I’ll give the other newbies an idea of what I am budgeting for. And it’s a lot more than the purchase price of the boat…….

1. Boat itself ~$15K
2. Budget for self performed interior teak repair - $5000
3. Dingy - $1000 (used, dingy + engine)
4. Generator – Honda EU2000i - $750 (used)
5. Build solid dodger with plexi inlays - $1,200
6. Haul out and paint - $1,500 (assumes no surprises that didn’t show up on the survey)
7. Boat has new sails but no spinnaker, so I am budgeting $1000 for a used spinnaker/pole/running rigging.
8. Boat includes two nice anchors with a generous amount of chain rode, but I am budgeting $300 here in case I decide to buy/sell and try out some other anchors.
9. Boat has about half the diesel tankage that I would like to have so I am budgeting $450 to install an aux tank.
10. Electrical system – Solar panels, controllers, battery bank etc. - $3500-4000.
11. Refrigeration – boat has 12v system already – budgeting to re-insulate and build better doors for refrigerator/freezer - $500.
12. Water Maker – DIY style - $2500
13. Windvane - $5000-6000 + install. I got lucky and found a monitor in perfect condition on ebay. With shipping it was $1600. I am budgeting $750 on top of that for mounting and misc parts replacement.
14. Auto Pilot is in good condition but I am budgeting $500 for the first set of spare parts.
15. New toilet and plumbing lines - $1000
16. EPRIB - $600
17. Chart Plotter – boat does not have one. I will either spend ~$1000 on a used one + ipad type arrangement or I may go with a whole new setup including radar ($3-4K).
18. Contingency budget - $5000

That’s just things off the top of my head. I have a budget I keep on an excel sheet with many other misc. items, some luxuries, some not. Like a TV and sound system, scuba gear plus there is all kinds of miscellaneous stuff like first aid supplies, life preservers, rebuilding winches, running rigging, bilge pumps, weather gear">foul weather gear, mast steps, etc.

And that is just the hard costs (~$40-50K). Then you have all the soft costs like:

1. Surveys and just searching for boats. I’ve spent about $2,500 on this already traveling to look at boats and have surveys done and most people will tell you they spent a lot more than that looking for boats.
2. Moving the boat to where you are located – In my case $2,000
3. Monthly slip rental either on the hard or at the dock while you are fitting out - $300-600/mo (varies widely depending on location)
4. Insurance costs - varies
5. Instruction. I am budgeting $5000ea for my wife and I to take ASA classes. $3000ea for the classes themselves and $2000ea for accommodations/travel for the classes.
6. Sales taxes when you purchase the boat.
7. Yearly state taxes.
I think the monthly slip rental really throws a lot of newbies off. At least it did for me. When I started researching boats I had no idea people were paying $500+/mo just to store them at a dock. So even after you “own” the boat simply “owning it” cost you a luxury car payment every month. So be prepared.

Our total projected soft costs are up to ~ $30K now. So our hard and soft cost total is around ~$80K. That is what I have budgeted to get a 15K "bluewater" boat ready to set sail. But thats just the cost up to the point of setting sail......on top of that you need money saved in the cruising kitty. As some others have mentioned you should have enough saved to spend $1000-2000 per month.

NOTE: The prices I listed above reflect the fact that I am doing all of the work myself and sourcing as many parts as I can on the used market. If you have to hire someone to do any work and aren’t willing to wait around for deals then your budget may be 2-3x higher than mine. Along with that if you are the type of person that isn’t mechanically inclined then you should run from any type of project boat. Especially those in the $15K range. You need to be the type of person that fearlessly runs TO a problem to try to solve it rather than the type that calls a repair man every time their sink at home has a leak.
__________________
opelgt73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 13:10   #125
cat herder, extreme blacksheep
 
zeehag's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 17,778
Images: 56
Send a message via Yahoo to zeehag Send a message via Skype™ to zeehag
Re: Bluewater Cruisers for under $15,000

Quote:
Originally Posted by denverd0n View Post
Exactly. Like I said, if you've got money to throw away, fine. Go ahead. If it turns out that you really don't enjoy the whole thing, so what? It's just money.

And, yes, if you are absolutely sure that this is for you, and you are absolutely sure that you are going to enjoy it and see it through for the long haul, then it can be less expensive to buy first and learn later. But the whole point is that most people, and certainly the OP, are NOT all that "absolutely sure." They've never tried it, don't know anything about it, and while they may THINK they are going to love it, they cannot possibly know for sure.

For people like that, as you said WebWench, you are setting yourself up for failure if you spend large amounts of money on a boat (or a plane, or anything else, for that matter) when your don't yet really know if it's for you.



run away from home and sail opb first then see how it is for ye.
i did that 2 times and learned a whole lot..lol
zeehag is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2013, 13:44   #126
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: north carolina
Boat: command yachtsdouglas32
Posts: 3,113
Re: Bluewater Cruisers for under $15,000

Quote:
Originally Posted by opelgt73 View Post
I’m a newbie who is doing the same thing the OP is looking to do. To answer the question “can you buy a “bluewater” boat for $15K”? Well it depends on what your definition of a “bluewater” boat is. And I’m not talking about type/make/model. I mean the condition of the boat as you buy it and all the extra gear needed to make offshore passages.

First you have to differentiate between the boat and what I call “cruising equipment”. After you have the boat in basic working order then you have all the cruising equipment to buy on top of that. Things like a life raft, wind vane, SSB, larger battery bank, solar, high efficiency refrigeration etc. Basically all the fitting out you need to do beyond what you would need on a costal cruiser. This additional equipment can easily set you back another $25-50K depending on your skills and ability to do work yourself. Now some of the more “salty” members of the cruising community will tell you that you don’t need half of that stuff. And that’s fine. But you need to decide what you want and what you need and make a list of it to get a feel for how much the total cost is going to be before you make an offer on a boat you just fell in love with.

In the 35-40’ range you are looking at it’s going to be $50-75K for a boat that needs (fairly) minimal work and can be taken out for costal cruising. On top of that I would budget 15-20% for misc things to get the boat up to snuff. That’s just to get you a good set of ‘bones’. Then you have to add the ‘offshore’ cruising equipment on top of that. For $15K you can find a boat (I did) but they are going to require a lot of labor and $$$ before they are ready to go offshore.

I started out with a budget of $50K to buy a “project” boat in the 40’-50’ range. I plan to take two years to fix/fit it out then sail for several years, returning to work afterwards. I’m only 32 so I am starting this a little earlier than most. The boat I ended up with is slightly smaller @34’, 40’ LOA incl. the bowsprit. I was originally looking at larger boats but after looking at quite a few boats and thinking about the fact that 95% of the time there will just be two of us, and the fact that all things boat are charged by the ft, I think we made the right choice going with the smaller boat.

Most things have been replaced recently (engine, sails, rigging, decks are all new), it does however need about 30% of the interior teak replaced due to water damage. And I say 30% because I see about 10% and I’m sure when I tear into it that it will be at least three times worse. The bulkheads are good however.

Needless to say sailboats are A LOT more expensive to own/maintain once you start to scratch the surface in your research. So I’ll give the other newbies an idea of what I am budgeting for. And it’s a lot more than the purchase price of the boat…….

1. Boat itself ~$15K
2. Budget for self performed interior teak repair - $5000
3. Dingy - $1000 (used, dingy + engine)
4. Generator – Honda EU2000i - $750 (used)
5. Build solid dodger with plexi inlays - $1,200
6. Haul out and paint - $1,500 (assumes no surprises that didn’t show up on the survey)
7. Boat has new sails but no spinnaker, so I am budgeting $1000 for a used spinnaker/pole/running rigging.
8. Boat includes two nice anchors with a generous amount of chain rode, but I am budgeting $300 here in case I decide to buy/sell and try out some other anchors.
9. Boat has about half the diesel tankage that I would like to have so I am budgeting $450 to install an aux tank.
10. Electrical system – Solar panels, controllers, battery bank etc. - $3500-4000.
11. Refrigeration – boat has 12v system already – budgeting to re-insulate and build better doors for refrigerator/freezer - $500.
12. Water Maker – DIY style - $2500
13. Windvane - $5000-6000 + install. I got lucky and found a monitor in perfect condition on ebay. With shipping it was $1600. I am budgeting $750 on top of that for mounting and misc parts replacement.
14. Auto Pilot is in good condition but I am budgeting $500 for the first set of spare parts.
15. New toilet and plumbing lines - $1000
16. EPRIB - $600
17. Chart Plotter – boat does not have one. I will either spend ~$1000 on a used one + ipad type arrangement or I may go with a whole new setup including radar ($3-4K).
18. Contingency budget - $5000

That’s just things off the top of my head. I have a budget I keep on an excel sheet with many other misc. items, some luxuries, some not. Like a TV and sound system, scuba gear plus there is all kinds of miscellaneous stuff like first aid supplies, life preservers, rebuilding winches, running rigging, bilge pumps, foul weather gear, mast steps, etc.

And that is just the hard costs (~$40-50K). Then you have all the soft costs like:

1. Surveys and just searching for boats. I’ve spent about $2,500 on this already traveling to look at boats and have surveys done and most people will tell you they spent a lot more than that looking for boats.
2. Moving the boat to where you are located – In my case $2,000
3. Monthly slip rental either on the hard or at the dock while you are fitting out - $300-600/mo (varies widely depending on location)
4. Insurance costs - varies
5. Instruction. I am budgeting $5000ea for my wife and I to take ASA classes. $3000ea for the classes themselves and $2000ea for accommodations/travel for the classes.
6. Sales taxes when you purchase the boat.
7. Yearly state taxes.
I think the monthly slip rental really throws a lot of newbies off. At least it did for me. When I started researching boats I had no idea people were paying $500+/mo just to store them at a dock. So even after you “own” the boat simply “owning it” cost you a luxury car payment every month. So be prepared.

Our total projected soft costs are up to ~ $30K now. So our hard and soft cost total is around ~$80K. That is what I have budgeted to get a 15K "bluewater" boat ready to set sail. But thats just the cost up to the point of setting sail......on top of that you need money saved in the cruising kitty. As some others have mentioned you should have enough saved to spend $1000-2000 per month.

NOTE: The prices I listed above reflect the fact that I am doing all of the work myself and sourcing as many parts as I can on the used market. If you have to hire someone to do any work and aren’t willing to wait around for deals then your budget may be 2-3x higher than mine. Along with that if you are the type of person that isn’t mechanically inclined then you should run from any type of project boat. Especially those in the $15K range. You need to be the type of person that fearlessly runs TO a problem to try to solve it rather than the type that calls a repair man every time their sink at home has a leak.
If you are not able to "afford" this budget , there is always plan B..
__________________
tropicalescape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-10-2013, 19:45   #127
Registered User
 
Fiveslide's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2009
Boat: JBW club 420, MFG Bandit, Snark
Posts: 603
http://pages.ebay.com/motors/link/?n...d=171152166166

Since this is the latest "cheap bluewater cruiser" thread I figure it was appropriate to add this boat to it. St Brendan HAS done it and is now for sale.
__________________
Fiveslide is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18-10-2013, 05:07   #128
Registered User
 
thomm225's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hampton Roads
Boat: 1974 Bristol 27
Posts: 3,482
Re: Bluewater Cruisers for under $15,000

But it seems you can always find a cheaper boat with less miles on the odometer: 27' Albin Vega $2,000

27ft Albin Vega 1972
__________________
thomm225 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18-10-2013, 09:47   #129
Registered User
 
CapnBrown's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Clearwater, FL
Boat: Ed Hostman Tristar 38 Trimaran
Posts: 50
Yeah! Then it will only cost 10k in equipment and the time to fit her out and you're good to go. ;-)

Just kidding. I'm sure you can do it for less if that boat is in great shape.
__________________

__________________
CapnBrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cruise, cruiser, water

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:24.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.