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24-08-2009, 13:07
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#1
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S/V rubber ducky
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: heading "south"
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 20,362
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'Blue Water' - What Does This Mean to You?
All these threads with Blue Water this Blue Water that! They always seem to go down the same paths after a few replies. So what is your definition of "blue water"? How far from nearest land, or nearest support? If you are 20 miles from anywhere are you in "blue water"?
To me the term means more "limited support" than the water etc itself. What does the term mean to you?
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24-08-2009, 13:11
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Southampton UK
Boat: Jaguar 22 mono called Arfur.
Posts: 1,220
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Possibility of big seas, big winds, lack of food and water and no chance of assistance. That's before things go wrong.
__________________
Ex Prout 31 Sailor, Now it's a 22ft Jaguar called 'Arfur' here in sunny Southampton, UK.
A few places left in Quayside Marina and Kemps Marina.
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24-08-2009, 13:40
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kemah, TX
Boat: O'day 322 "Southern Comfort"
Posts: 85
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I describe it as intercontinental/ocean crossing. Brown water would be coastal and inland waterways
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24-08-2009, 14:03
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#4
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Eternal Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Las Brisas Panama AGAIN!
Boat: Simpson, Catamaran, 46ft. IMAGINE
Posts: 4,507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernComfort
I describe it as intercontinental/ocean crossing. Brown water would be coastal and inland waterways
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AGREED, crossing oceans, but not all oceans. The Southern Ocean is quite another beast that can be BEASTLY......... i2f
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24-08-2009, 14:24
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#5
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S/V rubber ducky
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: heading "south"
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 20,362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleven
Possibility of big seas, big winds, lack of food and water and no chance of assistance. That's before things go wrong.
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This means something a lot worse off to me!
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24-08-2009, 14:28
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 20,420
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Blue water - offshore or extensive inshore - where you can't dodge whatever the blue water throws your way - and you, and the ship, have to just bite the bullet and (at least) survive.
The ingredients may be numerous, but they will include:
1) a safe boat (well-designed, well-maintained, etc...),
2) a boat capable of carrying the necessary supplies without limiting her sailing ability (water, food, equipment, spares, diesel, etc.),
3) preferably above some lower limit of displacement/length - so that normal ocean conditions will not create unnecessary risks for the safety of crew and the craft,
* by 'normal ocean conditions' I understand anything other than a bad hurricane, freak waves, waterspouts and other such phenomena that we avoid if we know they are there,
b.
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24-08-2009, 14:32
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Boat: Davidson 46, 14m LOA
Posts: 159
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My personal definition of blue water would involve being outside the national territorial limits for a country. In New Zealand the territorial limit is 12 nautical miles - beyond that you're in international waters.
Having said that, simply sailing 13 nautical miles offshore and turning around to return to port would not make me feel like a blue water sailor.
Once I've sailed a journey complete with clearing out of one country and clearing into another, I would then count blue water sailing amongst my personal inventory of experience.
But that's just me.
__________________
The problem with doing nothing all day is that you're never sure when you're actually finished.
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24-08-2009, 14:44
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nicholasville, Kentucky
Boat: 15 foot Canoe
Posts: 14,191
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I think of "bluewater" in relationship to structure and build of a boat. The ability of a vessel in good condition with a good crew to withstand whatever weather normally is thrown at it while crossing the Pacific or Atlantic.
I would not consider 20 miles as bluewater but I would consider a 50 to 100 mile course parralleling the coastline offshore to be bluewater.
Oh, I spell it one word, is it two?
regards,
__________________
John
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24-08-2009, 14:59
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#9
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S/V rubber ducky
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: heading "south"
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 20,362
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I feel a storm 20 miles from shore is the same as one 50 miles from shore. Is the 30 miles going to help you any really? Is it going to made any difference to the boat that you are on? In some ways getting caught up close to shore could be a lot worst.
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24-08-2009, 15:13
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Eastern PA
Boat: Island Packet 31 (35'), Black Squirrel
Posts: 239
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Quote:
Is the 30 miles going to help you any really?
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Under ideal conditions, a USCG helo will meet you in 8 minutes at 20 miles and 20 minutes at 50 miles. That is an extra 12 minutes in the water - unless you are naked in the cold water, its bad but not fatal.
A storm is less than ideal so a factor of 4 for weather and response initiation. That would be 32 minutes versus 80 minutes in the water. That is a long 48 minutes in the water.
__________________
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24-08-2009, 15:18
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nicholasville, Kentucky
Boat: 15 foot Canoe
Posts: 14,191
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Aloha Don,
Just my point of view. I'm certain there are a hundred arguments against it but I'll not join them.
regards
__________________
John
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24-08-2009, 16:23
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#12
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cruiser
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tampa to New York
Boat: Morgan 33 OutIsland, Magic and 33' offshore scott design "Cutting Edge"
Posts: 1,594
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Bluewater? I consider it the point when the water turns that cobalt blue and the bottom drops away.
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24-08-2009, 17:04
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#13
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S/V rubber ducky
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: heading "south"
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 20,362
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I'm not arguing one way or the other, just debating it. In my mind if I start thinking of the difference in CG helicopter time being 8 minutes verse 20 minutes etc because I'm going in the water I figure I'm lost. That becomes more a discussion on things to do to stay with the boat. I would say on this line in questioning that the point where the helicopter can not get to you anymore becomes "blue water". But that becomes that "limited support" point. Rememeber the topic question isn't about the boat or equipment being blue water (there are lots of those threads already), but what the point in your cruising that you made the changeover from coastral etc to blue water.
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24-08-2009, 17:11
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#14
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Long Range Cruiser
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,822
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50 miles of Sydney or New York means you can still get a salvage tug or medivac in a few hours.
A few weeks ago here in Indonesia 2 people went down in their catamaran less than 50 miles off a major island and were picked by a Chinese cargo ship.... they will be put off in Shanghi!!!!!!!!!
So blue water to me means being outside the cordon of 1st world countries immediate support.
When we did Tonga to Sydney, its only 1,600nm miles, not far, but we didn't see another ship or boat the whole way!!!!!
It would have been a long wait to be picked up.
Then theres the log passages....
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24-08-2009, 17:18
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#15
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Eternal Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North of Baltimore
Boat: Ericson 27 & 18' Herrmann Catboat
Posts: 3,798
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Past the Continental Shelf
Or past the littoral zones of an offshore Island
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