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Old 12-04-2013, 09:53   #16
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pirate Re: Blue water sailboats

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Originally Posted by Sailor_Hutch View Post
It seems to me that the true test for blue (or green) water is whether or not the deck is watertight. Does it matter, in most cases, how big the boat is (within reason?) Does it matter what material shapes the boat's hull (for most storms that are near misses?) Deformation under stress may play a part when the hull is not metal? Really - I don't know, but isn't it likely that any direct hit is an "SOL Davie" scenario anyway. Put a bung in a barrel, and it'll never sink (until it rusts).

So, my question, when I look at a boat, is "can it hold out water for awhile (maybe even many minutes) whilst it is upside down. The feeling I get from looking at most production boats - is that the companionway "storm hatches" are a joke, and the superstructure around the area of the main entrance is not securable without major redesign. In many cases, you are looking at a plywood on weak member sort of construction, to keep out the raging sea (ridiculous, IMHO). That's just my opinion at this time. Maybe someone can convince me to change it. I'm not the expert here, obviously, but doesn't this idea have the feeling of the truth ... " it just seems to me" ...
You have it about right.. I liked the earlier FG Van de Stadts hatchways for that... the fixed archway out to the cockpit made modifications for strengthen/sea proofing fairly simple... very distinctive..
In a roll that's where the water comes in every time.. just make sure all your sea cocks are shut after use else you may lose your air and likely go down before she rights..
..a rule I follow hove to in heavy sea's.. I've had green water over a Cherubini laying ahull... awesome sight from the salon as it goes over..
But boy did the hatchway squirt everywhere... took ages to de-salinate everything when I got to the Azores..
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Old 12-04-2013, 10:09   #17
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Re: Blue water sailboats

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I've had green water over a Cherubini laying ahull... awesome sight from the salon as it goes over..
Pictures?
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Old 12-04-2013, 10:12   #18
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Re: Blue water sailboats

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You have it about right.. I liked the earlier FG Van de Stadts hatchways for that... the fixed archway out to the cockpit made modifications for strengthen/sea proofing fairly simple... very distinctive..
In a roll that's where the water comes in every time.. just make sure all your sea cocks are shut after use else you may lose your air and likely go down before she rights..
..a rule I follow hove to in heavy sea's.. I've had green water over a Cherubini laying ahull... awesome sight from the salon as it goes over..
But boy did the hatchway squirt everywhere... took ages to de-salinate everything when I got to the Azores..
I should compile a list of all boats that are similarly capable of modification (like the Van de Stadts), because they would be on my short list. I know people will decide that I must like living in caves, but I figure I can always "walk outside" into the wide open air just as any other cave dweller can. Doesn't bother me ...
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Old 12-04-2013, 10:13   #19
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pirate Re: Blue water sailboats

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Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey View Post
Pictures?
Had other things on my mind.. like staying put...
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Old 12-04-2013, 10:29   #20
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Re: Blue water sailboats

Tourist submarine Mark V - Mobimar

Could do with some portals closed off, and a lot less glass down below ...
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Old 12-04-2013, 11:16   #21
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Re: Blue water sailboats

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Originally Posted by glavine View Post
What are the desirable attributes of a capable blue water sailboat?
that the seawater stays outside the boat

after that everything becomes a troll
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Old 12-04-2013, 12:44   #22
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Re: Blue water sailboats

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Originally Posted by glavine View Post
What are the desirable attributes of a capable blue water sailboat?
My take, in any order:

- seaworthy design,
- good build,
- properly maintained,
- comfortable,
- easy to drive.

b.
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Old 12-04-2013, 14:02   #23
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Re: Blue water sailboats

In Beth Leonard's book The Voyager's Handbook there is a section that lists the attributes of a blue water voyager,as compared to, a coastal cruiser. Much better than the bits and pieces you will amass on any forum. imho.
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Old 18-04-2013, 00:26   #24
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Re: Blue water sailboats

I agree with haw, I bought The Voyager's Handbook on amazon a while ago, and what a great read. Definitely a useful almanac to help anyone with info about boat selection, passagemaking, outfitting, etc.
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Old 18-04-2013, 01:42   #25
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Re: Blue water sailboats

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I agree. But...there are some boats that would stand better than others.
The ideal boat to me would be no more than 30', sloop, small cockpit, small windows and full keeled if possible.

Two things that are absolutely crucial are your sailing skills, and your ability to pick good weather windows. If your boat is more of a costal boat, you can still get away with short hops. With the right window you can make it to Bimini quite safely, and then you can island hop to the rest of the Bahamas.

There are other ways to get to other places. I would *never* try to sail my boat to the Azores, but Bimini is possible, and so is Puerto Rico.
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Old 18-04-2013, 01:48   #26
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Re: Blue water sailboats

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Originally Posted by Sailor_Hutch View Post
It seems to me that the true test for blue (or green) water is whether or not the deck is watertight. Does it matter, in most cases, how big the boat is (within reason?) Does it matter what material shapes the boat's hull (for most storms that are near misses?) Does deformation under stress play a part when the hull is not metal? Really - I don't know, but isn't it likely that any direct hit is an "SOL Davie" scenario anyway? Put a bung in a barrel, and it'll never sink (until it rusts). There may be only mush left in the barrel, but it's dryer mush, and less salty! Seems better.

So, my question, when I look at a boat, is "can it hold out water for awhile?" (maybe even many minutes) whilst it is upside down. The feeling I get from looking at most production boats - is that the companionway "storm hatches" are a joke, and the superstructure around the area of the main entrance is not securable without major redesign. In many cases, you are looking at a plywood on weak member sort of construction, to keep out the raging sea (ridiculous, IMHO). That's just my opinion at this time. Maybe someone can convince me to change it. I'm not the expert here, obviously, but doesn't this idea have the feeling of the truth ... " it just seems to me" ...

Kind of depends on the location of the blue water, too. If you have a long expanse over the Pacific Ocean, you need all sorts of things -- Radar, really good life raft, water maker (on the raft, too), stout boat, full keel -- the whole schmeer. To cross from Fort Lauderdale to Bimini you need decent navigation skills and a good weather window. Don't cross the Gulf Stream in a strong north wind, etc.

There's all sorts of safety things I would want even for a short hop across blue waaer including a good long drag line, and certainly a radar reflector. Epirb of course. For any of these trips, experienced crew who will still follow your directions.

Even with a stout boat with every safety gadget you can think of, it centers on your skills as skipper. If you don't have that, you can't just buy backup systems to make you "safe."
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Old 18-04-2013, 03:01   #27
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Re: Blue water sailboats

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
Kind of depends on the location of the blue water, too. If you have a long expanse over the Pacific Ocean, you need all sorts of things -- Radar, really good life raft, water maker (on the raft, too), stout boat, full keel -- the whole schmeer. To cross from Fort Lauderdale to Bimini you need decent navigation skills and a good weather window. Don't cross the Gulf Stream in a strong north wind, etc.

There's all sorts of safety things I would want even for a short hop across blue waaer including a good long drag line, and certainly a radar reflector. Epirb of course. For any of these trips, experienced crew who will still follow your directions.

Even with a stout boat with every safety gadget you can think of, it centers on your skills as skipper. If you don't have that, you can't just buy backup systems to make you "safe."
Reality is that radar is of more use foro night time coastal passages where distance off obstacles and other vessel targets are more of an issue.
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