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Old 22-07-2013, 18:49   #196
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Re: Block Island Anchor Drag/Tow $$$

eBay has a sailboat bow pulpit on offer: $625. And that would only be the first item you buy as you drag through the fleet. Then there is the labor which, surprise, also costs money. Then the other 14 damaged parts. And their labor.

Block Island? Depending on your seat in the arena, Break out the air horns, or the binos, cause here comes the rodeo.

OP,This is going to sting a little but why don't you name your next child after the tow boat Captain who saved you all this pain when Samaritan began to drag southeast toward the shiny Oyster? (seen this scenario one time too often)
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Old 22-07-2013, 18:51   #197
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Originally Posted by tanksalot View Post

How about an email from the owner of a boat that saw the whole thing? The morning after the incident , I looked for the Samaritan, but he had left. I found a bystander who had seen everything, and I got his email. This is the email I received from him. Names have been obliterated, but the rest is verbatim; Bystander's boat is XXXX, My boat is YYYY and Samaritan's boat is ZZZZ.

"Here is what I saw at Block Island last weekend in late afternoon Saturday 6th July 2013. I just happened to look out from XXXX anchored just northwest of YYYYY in about 15-17 knots of southerly breeze when I saw YYYYY dragging her anchor with her tender attached behind. I shouted as loud as I could to YYYYY but nobody came on deck. Soon YYYYY lightly brushed against ZZZZZ downwind from her. Enough of a bump to get the crew of ZZZZ on deck. They grabbed YYYY's pulpit and attached a line so that YYYYY could safely ride behind ZZZZZ. I was pleased how ZZZZZ handled the situation and retired below. Later to my surprise I saw Seatow coming along and taking YYYYY from ZZZZZ although there was no evidence of any distress, damage or dragging to ZZZZZ. YYYYY seemed perfectly happy riding behind ZZZZZ."
Sounds like easily can be called a perilous situation. Boat ZZZZZ, I imagine, had appropriately sized and scoped anchoring gear for herself. Add another boat and now you have nearly doubled the force on the anchor tackle. Not for 15 minutes would I want to remain that way if I was on boat ZZZZZ. I would not set the boat adrift, but I would call harbormaster/tow service and insist that the situation was urgent so someone could pick up the extra boat before we both dragged together.

If you're boat ZZZZ, and boat YYYY is tied up behind you, and you start dragging, what's your play in that breeze in a crowded anchorage? Did you think of this? This is what experienced boaters do. They think through the entire situation like a chess game.

So in my non-biased opinion, your boat was in peril because the second its forces popped out the other's anchor, which could have happened any second, the original oat may have had to cut it free to save itself....

So pay up IMHO. This was not a low risk situation. The last sentence "YYYY seemed perfectly happy riding behind ZZZZ" sounds a lot like "my boat was riding fine to 2:1 scope so I went ashore."
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Old 22-07-2013, 18:54   #198
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Re: Block Island Anchor Drag/Tow $$$

--->represents the BEATING A DEAD HORSE UNION...we at the union, are sick and tired of the belly-aching. Next time, don't anchor in that location or anywhere with a grassy bottom. Enough, already! ...returning to the scheduled broadcast, in progress...

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Old 22-07-2013, 18:58   #199
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Re: Block Island Anchor Drag/Tow $$$

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Originally Posted by Teknav View Post
--->represents the BEATING A DEAD HORSE UNION...we at the union, are sick and tired of the belly-aching. Next time, don't anchor is that location or anywhere with a grassy bottom. Enough, already! ...returning to the scheduled broadcast, in progress...

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YES!!! THIS!

Either pay the bill an get your boat or file a lawsuit. Until one of these two actions, there is nothing to discuss.

Some people. Too cheap to pay a bill, too cheap to pay a lawyer. Sheesh.
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Old 22-07-2013, 19:11   #200
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Re: Block Island Anchor Drag/Tow $$$

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Originally Posted by nimblemotors View Post
I don't think so, once he saved the boat, he can't just let it go adrift again, that would be creating an intentional hazard.

My opinion is the OP has a case to challenge the charge, it is probably double that of a reasonable amount, but sometimes you just have bad luck. If it was $6,750, no doubt I would be in court over it, $675 I get pissed off and complain but move on, and of course that is why they get away with it. So one can turn the table and pay only half, but I gather the CC was already charged and boat released, so not much you can do now.
Sure the other boat could have let it go...he never was obligated to stop the hazard in the first place....with no people aboard there is no "required" action...and all he had to do was let it go because it was "hazarding" his boat...do you people ever really tink this stuff through?

It's not double a "reasonable amount" because we have no idea what was actually done...the OP has said a few thing...hardly facts in any case...and the bystander e-mail doesn't mean a thing....and won't in a court of law or maritime court either other than maybe a "timeline" verification.
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Old 22-07-2013, 19:20   #201
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Given I am the guy in the shiny Oyster in block island I say pay the money and put out more scope next time. Otherwise simply raft up to Chaplains with the rest of the nut cases.
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Old 22-07-2013, 19:21   #202
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Re: Block Island Anchor Drag/Tow $$$

After being shanghai-ed, sailors on Naval vessels would be provided with a sailor's kit: clothes, jacket, knife, etc. For a price of course. And then they would have to work off the price of their kit. At some point in the voyage, all the shanghai'ed sailors would have paid off their initial debt. They would build a straw horse, parade it around the ship flogging it all the way. After it was soundly beat and flogged, they would throw it overboard and celebrate that they would henceforth keep what they earned. So 'beating the dead horse' was the end of a painful lesson about not going into town and getting shanghai'ed.

You went to town, you got shanghai'ed, the dead horse has been soundly flogged. Now toss it overboard and get on with the rest of the cruise.

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Old 22-07-2013, 19:22   #203
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Re: Block Island Anchor Drag/Tow $$$

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Originally Posted by defjef View Post
I wonder why the guys who tied the OPs boat off didn't just wait for OP to return... assuming his own boat was doing fine with the OP's tied off to his stern? He didn't have to... of course... but he could assume that the OP would be returning to the boat at some time... and as it was late afternoon, it was likely that he would be back BEFORE he needed to depart. I don't recall the details and so I don't rememnber when OP arrived via launch I presume to discover his boat missing and probably learned from GS what about the tow. Or was this late in the evening?

I found a dink on the beach one morning in Newport at King's park where I was walking the dog. I recognized it as belong to the boat up wind of me... it someone got free and drifted to the beach. I towed back to my boat and tied it to the stern and went below to eat my waiting breakfast... intending to tow it back to the owner.

But before I finished my breakfast I was interrupted by him circling and shouting I had his dink. I came on deck and told him I know and was just having breakfast and intended ot tow it back to him.

No I didn't insist on salvage rights... he came along side and I passed his wife the painter... He told me he thought a drunk charter guest he had and untied the dink... after he was removed from the boat by the police or harbor master when the charter operator had called for help the previous night.

Maybe not an analogous situation... I could have called the harbor master and have him deal with the dink. Why bother?
and I thought you said you were through...the dink story isn't even close and you are not in the business of marine salvage which you clearly don't understand as pointed out by me and others. Might be better if you stick to your statement in post #162 "I am not wasting more time with this. "

Just for those that never really read or understand maritime salvage...the reason the awards seem greater than reasonable is that the courts have long upheld that companies that keep vessels, crews and equipment read and willing to do maritime salvage deserve to be rewarded accordingly. If risk is involved...the greater the reward.

The basics of this case are in question..because we have not heard from the "other good sam boat" till then who really knows what happened and most importantly WHY. Till then it is very easy to call this case salvage and the $675 is dirt cheap. If you decide that it's not salvage...then the $675 is considered reasonable withing the scope of work...as been upheld again by the courts and many just regular joe boaters here in this forum...what else is there to be said?
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Old 22-07-2013, 19:30   #204
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Re: Block Island Anchor Drag/Tow $$$

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Originally Posted by tanksalot View Post
How about an email from the owner of a boat that saw the whole thing? The morning after the incident , I looked for the Samaritan, but he had left. I found a bystander who had seen everything, and I got his email. This is the email I received from him. Names have been obliterated, but the rest is verbatim; Bystander's boat is XXXX, My boat is YYYY and Samaritan's boat is ZZZZ.

"Here is what I saw at Block Island last weekend in late afternoon Saturday 6th July 2013. I just happened to look out from XXXX anchored just northwest of YYYYY in about 15-17 knots of southerly breeze when I saw YYYYY dragging her anchor with her tender attached behind. I shouted as loud as I could to YYYYY but nobody came on deck. Soon YYYYY lightly brushed against ZZZZZ downwind from her. Enough of a bump to get the crew of ZZZZ on deck. They grabbed YYYY's pulpit and attached a line so that YYYYY could safely ride behind ZZZZZ. I was pleased how ZZZZZ handled the situation and retired below. Later to my surprise I saw Seatow coming along and taking YYYYY from ZZZZZ although there was no evidence of any distress, damage or dragging to ZZZZZ. YYYYY seemed perfectly happy riding behind ZZZZZ."
In post 96 it was ....."Totally correct. Safe/Sea is the company that did the towing. The company chose to set up an operation located at Block Island on the Salt Pond, because they felt it would be a good investment, I guess. "

Well who was it on the invoice...Seatow or Sea Safe? Really having a hard time believing much of anything any more......

Am I'm the pirate there defjef?????
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Old 22-07-2013, 19:33   #205
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Re: Block Island Anchor Drag/Tow $$$

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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Sure the other boat could have let it go...he never was obligated to stop the hazard in the first place....with no people aboard there is no "required" action...and all he had to do was let it go because it was "hazarding" his boat...do you people ever really tink this stuff through?

It's not double a "reasonable amount" because we have no idea what was actually done...the OP has said a few thing...hardly facts in any case...and the bystander e-mail doesn't mean a thing....and won't in a court of law or maritime court either other than maybe a "timeline" verification.
My understanding is, legally, once you take charge of the boat you are now responsible... if you simply let it go you could be liable. But I'm no lawyer...

To the OP, too bad you're not an old geezer, we love going to places like small claims court etc just for something to do and for the experience.... If I understand ... you've paid it. Now go after them in SC court. The trouble factor may get you a refund... or if they dont show... you get a judgement.
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Old 22-07-2013, 19:40   #206
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Re: Block Island Anchor Drag/Tow $$$

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My understanding is, legally, once you take charge of the boat you are now responsible... if you simply let it go you could be liable. But I'm no lawyer...

To the OP, too bad you're not an old geezer, we love going to places like small claims court etc just for something to do and for the experience.... If I understand ... you've paid it. Now go after them in SC court. The trouble factor may get you a refund... or if they dont show... you get a judgement.
I guess my interpretation of "take charge of" is different.

A boat blows down on me...I fend it off...and tie it off to my stern....

I wait to see if I get any help from the owner, harbormaster, Assistance towers, other good sams. I'm not required to call anyone...and maybe I tried and no one answered.

I feel like my anchor is going to drag...I can't jeopardize my boat with persons on board so I release the other boat and issue a PAN PAN or Securite' that maybe no one hears either.

ANY court would be hard pressed to even suggest that I would be at fault if I realeased the other boat.

At this point I don't know if I would love to see the OP take the towing company to court...after the black eye this and other towing companies have gotten from some of the "uninformed posters" here...it may be refreshing to see a careless boater REALLY stung for what has happened. Not because of his mistake...we all make them...but this thread and feeding a fire that is a common, every day occurrence.

I really don't want that ....but some of you guys just don't get it.....maybe seeing what the courts say about it may open your eyes.... I bet 100 to 1 in favor of the towing company based on what I know.
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Old 22-07-2013, 19:46   #207
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Re: Block Island Anchor Drag/Tow $$$

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Originally Posted by tanksalot View Post
During a recent crowded July 4'th week at Block Island, we had relocated our 27 ft. Ericson to the Northeast edge of the anchorage. The anchor held for 5 hours until we got pumped out and went ashore. Taking the launch back, we were astonished to find our vessel GONE! The launch driver suggested looking at the emergency moorings, and there she was. The towboat service driver gave me a photo of our boat tied up to the stern of a nearby vessel since our boat had dragged anchor. There was a huge cable around our wheel, and the cost to ransom our boat.....$675! From the metadata associated with the photo and the time on the paper on our boat, it was clear the towboat driver spent a total of 25 minutes to "earn" his money.

I had used a very short scope, and apparently the rising tide, loss of weight from the holding tank being emptied and 2 people leaving pulled the anchor loose. The short scope was necessary due to the crowded anchorage, but clearly it was too short.

HOWEVER, I believe that the laws of salvage, under which apparently the company can charge insane fees, would apply to the original salvager only. The boat that grabbed my dragging-anchor vessel is the salvager, and after it was secured by him to his stern my boat was no longer in peril. The appearance of the tow boat driver and his subsequent charge to me of $675 is simply an outrageous towing charge, has no relevance to the laws of salvage, and cannot be legitimately levied (I believe).

Anyone feel that my argument has validity, or am I wasting my time and energy fighting this? Thanks in advance!

Tanksalot

Maybe the guy who grabbed your boat wasn't willing to be responsible for having it hang off his stern all night. I might grab a boat, but I would not be responsible for it all night -- oh a little dinghy, sure, but not a decent-sized sailboat. I only count on my anchor holding my boat -- not two.

Having a second boat off his stern would significantly extend his swing-arc -- as you noted, one reason you used a short rode.

Bottom line is, if you know your anchoring is dicey -- don't leave the boat.
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Old 22-07-2013, 19:49   #208
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Re: Block Island Anchor Drag/Tow $$$

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That's about my thoughts as well. $675 is a drop in the bucket compared to what your costs could have been.

And in regards to the 25 minutes spent "earning" (you used the quotes) the money, there's a lot of prep that goes into successful tow and salvage. The tow vessel needs to be in terrific shape, the captain is licensed and regularly tested and drug screened, and the tow gear itself has to be replaced pretty frequently.

Boat payments, probably pretty steep insurance, no guarantee of work from hour to hour or day to day ...

I think the OP was exceptionally lucky.
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Old 22-07-2013, 19:55   #209
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Old 22-07-2013, 20:03   #210
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Re: Block Island Anchor Drag/Tow $$$

Maybe one of the MOD's can do us a favor and shuts down this thread. The original OP is in continuous denial. There really is nothing anyone can do now! So, aches to aches...dust to dust...please let this boat thread...become rust!

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