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Old 08-10-2013, 16:04   #196
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Re: Big Ship Little Boat, who Gives way

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
The COLREGS were not written to favor any group over another, so there's no "enormous leeway," although courtesy goes a very long way. The rules are written to minimize the risk of collisions as much as regulations can. I certainly know leisure boaters who have no idea who really has to do what, and I hear "right of way" all the time. Just yesterday I heard someone assuming that sailboats "always" have the "right of way."

As long as we continue to decline to require operator's licenses for leisure boating, there will be all sorts of levels of ignorance. But let's not confuse that with pecking people's posts apart, and out of context, as a form of personal puffery.

In fact if there's an accident there is no "leeway" for anyone. The rules will be applied impartially and as precisely as the powers that be can manage.
Actually after a collision or even near collision...the hearing is usually harder on professional mariners because they are expected to know and interpret where necessary then follow the Colregs to a much higher degree than a pleasure boater.....so someone thinks that all the pros in this thread night know something more than some others...

Plus not sure what you mean by "decline to require operator's licenses " as 41 states require mandatory boating safety education ....

Boating Laws and boating license requirements by state
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Old 08-10-2013, 16:08   #197
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Re: Big Ship Little Boat, who Gives way

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I don't think anyone wants to start all over again with this, which was done to death a few weeks ago.

Several different people went to a lot of trouble to explain to you why "just sailing off 90 degrees" will not get you out of trouble in many, probably most potential collision situations, which is why (a) that is not the way you are taught in any formal training program; (b) that is not what the rules say.

You chose not to absorb a single iota of what at least two professional ships' captains, a former senior Coast Guard officer, and a whole host of highly experienced sailors have tried to explain to you. That's your business and your loss. I don't think any of them will want to go through the whole exercise again; certainly I will not.

Apparently you do, because you just won't let it drop.

I will say again -- getting out of the way is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

Sometimes sailing off at 90 would be an awful idea because you would then hit another boat. ASTOUNDING that you think that needs to be stated, but that you harp on it so is just ... well, there are no nice or neutral words to describe it.

I am glad you will not try to teach me again, because you aren't really teaching. You only think you are. You need to review algebra if you think a slower boat can't get out of a faster boat's path. In fact people do it all the time. I do it all the time with power boats that go considerably faster and that are considerably more unpredictable than a ferry or freighter.

Then we have the fellow who printed out the entire conversation, passed it out to his underlings, and then held a staff meeting where they all patted the boss on the back. Big surprise there; they agreed with the boss. I know I would have parroted back what he clearly wanted to hear. Then I would have started looking for a different assignment.

All you have done is think up exceptions to what I said and then pounded them with a verbal 2 X 4 even though it's nothing like what I actually said, when taken in context. You were looking for a nail to pound.

So if you really want to drop it, just ... drop it. Without insults or snide remarks. You can do it -- I know you can!
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Old 08-10-2013, 16:11   #198
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Re: Big Ship Little Boat, who Gives way

"Whatever you do do it in ample time.... "

Interestingly, that was part of what I said, and the response was that I would get a "ticket" for not following the COLREGS. Gotta say (I did ask about that, since who wants a water violation?) -- the CG guy I talked to was stunned by that one. Then that part of it got completely ignored, and the several critics then ASSUMED that it wouldn't be in a timely way, which would cause a major calamity, a nervous breakdown on the part of the freighter captain, and concluded that I am a terror on the water for making a CLEAR move in a TIMELY way to AVOID a collision.

Through the looking glass and right down the rabbit hole.
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Old 08-10-2013, 16:17   #199
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Re: Big Ship Little Boat, who Gives way

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Actually after a collision or even near collision...the hearing is usually harder on professional mariners because they are expected to know and interpret where necessary then follow the Colregs to a much higher degree than a pleasure boater.....so someone thinks that all the pros in this thread night know something more than some others...

Plus not sure what you mean by "decline to require operator's licenses " as 41 states require mandatory boating safety education ....

Boating Laws and boating license requirements by state

Yes, most states are moving to it. In Florida if you're under 28 you don't have to take it. But I took it anyway. You can't know too much about boating safety and it also got me a discount on my insurance. Does any state really require any working knowledge of the COLREGS?

The Florida course didn't cover the COLREGS by name, although it hit a VERY few highlights. People who took that class (can be taken online where you can't even ask questions) wouldn't even know to Google "COLREGS."

In other words, the licensing for Florida is a joke, but all the people taking that class are safer on the water than they were before.

There's no such class required for things like jet skis, and they scare me more than any boat because so many of them have only had a quick 10 - 15 minutes of instruction on the operation.

In Florida to take a class that really covers the COLREGS you would take the Coast Guard Auxiliary's very extensive course. The Florida boater's test is MARKEDLY easier than the one for a driver's license. I've taken the Florida test and helped people study for the driver's test, so I'm not just saying that casually.
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Old 08-10-2013, 16:23   #200
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Re: Big Ship Little Boat, who Gives way

Correction: I said "Yes, most states are moving to it. In Florida if you're under 28."

I meant if you're OVER 28, which is the great majority of boaters in Florida. So in reality, Florida doesn't require operator licenses. They are gradually phasing the rule in so that eventually everyone will have to take their very easy test. It's not nearly enough to make boating significantly safer.
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Old 08-10-2013, 16:27   #201
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Re: Big Ship Little Boat, who Gives way

Rakuflames, are your last seven posts how you "cheerfully ignore" responses?

I had high hopes when you posted that...
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Old 08-10-2013, 16:41   #202
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Re: Big Ship Little Boat, who Gives way

Licensing/education won't make any state boating safer when newbies totally ignore the sage advice of seasoned professionals...boating safety courses or not....

Like most threads that started great and degenerate because of a certain few...I'm really glad the pro's go the most useful info out before it went back to the gutter....

See ya in the next decent thread on Colregs.
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Old 08-10-2013, 16:43   #203
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Re: Big Ship Little Boat, who Gives way

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Rakuflames, are your last seven posts how you "cheerfully ignore" responses?

I had high hopes when you posted that...

Lies and insults. It's not reasonable to expect a person to do that. I had high hopes that people would not so rapidly descend to bullying again.

Naively, I suppose, I thought everyone had been told what "polite" is.
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Old 08-10-2013, 16:45   #204
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Re: Big Ship Little Boat, who Gives way

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Licensing/education won't make any state boating safer when newbies totally ignore the sage advice of seasoned professionals...boating safety courses or not....

Like most threads that started great and degenerate because of a certain few...I'm really glad the pro's go the most useful info out before it went back to the gutter....

See ya in the next decent thread on Colregs.

And we would all name different "certain few." Newbies MUST ignore "seasoned professionals" when they turn into Captai Queeg.
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Old 08-10-2013, 16:54   #205
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Re: Big Ship Little Boat, who Gives way

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Lies and insults. It's not reasonable to expect a person to do that. I had high hopes that people would not so rapidly descend to bullying again.

Naively, I suppose, I thought everyone had been told what "polite" is.
With all due respect Raku, you cannot tell everybody that you are right and they are wrong, then accuse them of being snarky and insulting, calling them names like Capt Queeg etc, and then accuse them of bullying or being impolite when they respond. Respect goes both ways.

Coops.
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Old 08-10-2013, 17:08   #206
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Re: Big Ship Little Boat, who Gives way

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With all due respect Raku, you cannot tell everybody that you are right and they are wrong, then accuse them of being snarky and insulting, calling them names like Capt Queeg etc, and then accuse them of bullying or being impolite when they respond. Respect goes both ways.

Coops.

With all due respect, Coops, yes I can when they have taken what I said out of context of extended it to the point of logical absurdity and then insisted that this is either what I said or what I meant. And, snarky and insulting -- there's no excuse for it. Yes, I have referred to "Captain Queeg," but I wasn't the first to insult. Even if you nudge back, that doesn't change the fact that someone is trying to bully you. And yes, there's been a LOT of rudness in this, and I have NEVER started it. Respect does go both ways.

What you haven't noticed is that disrespect goes both ways too. I WILL not respect people who have said the garbage they have said here in attempts to pound others down.

When this started, I had no reason to think poorly of anyone participating. I have changed that opinions, and no, I'm not interested in having someone I don't respect explain *anything* to me unless it starts with an apology.

And without the distortions and logical absurdities, I AM right. One does not have to remain on course while a boat steams up their ass because they're the stand on vessel. I don't have to go through that kind of terror hoping the captain wasn't drunk or on drugs (both have happened in all sorts of transportation), and saw me, and isn't in a bad mood, or a sociopath.

I am ABSOLUTELY entitled to change course. The fact that a freighter is out there does not, by itself, dictate the course I take. What I AM required to do is to make any course change VERY clear and to do it in a timely way. Maybe that's illegal in Australia, but here in the US, according to the Coast Guard, it's a good plan.

So I AM listening to a seasoned professional, as someone said. That seasoned professional disagreed with the opinions professed here. Darn. Who knew people wouldn't always agree? What's up with that???

I was slammed in multiple ways. I particularly found it entertaining to be repeatedly told that I could not steer out of a collision course when in fact I've done it many times. I guess I was just really scratching my head, the chart lied to me, the chart plotter broke down, and the compass stopped pointing to north.
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Old 08-10-2013, 17:42   #207
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Re: Big Ship Little Boat, who Gives way

In 5525 posts, I wonder how many times the 'I' has been typed?
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Old 08-10-2013, 17:50   #208
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Re: Big Ship Little Boat, who Gives way

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In 5525 posts, I wonder how many times the 'I' has been typed?
Mac
People are speaking about what they know, what they have experienced, and what they believe. Using "I" isn't the problem here.
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Old 08-10-2013, 18:41   #209
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Re: Big Ship Little Boat, who Gives way

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Using "I" isn't the problem here.
Well, that's true.
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Old 08-10-2013, 20:21   #210
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Re: Big Ship Little Boat, who Gives way

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In 5525 posts, I wonder how many times the 'I' has been typed?
Mac
Well if the previous post to yours is any indication, it would total 110,500. If you include I'am and I've that total would increase to 132,600. Of course, this does not include any post after #5525.

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