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Old 28-09-2017, 11:20   #1
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Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

My minimum day dream is to buy a boat and sail a season in the Caribbean.

I am thinking 40 foot or greater.

If that goes well, I have other bigger day dreams like crossing the pacific.
My main concern is my total cost which is purchase price + repairs - sales price. I know I am going to lose money. How much should I budget for?

A boat that is popular and easy to sell is another criterion.

All my current thoughts are around a monohull because of the cost. Also, mooring is expensive in Peugeot sound and a cat will be expensive have sitting idle. Although, if CAT was cheaper I the long run I guess I could pull it off.

One idea is to getting a used charter boat - like from the Moorings.
I know many of the boats in the Caribbean are wrecked - but I am thinking a few years ahead. (Leave in 4?) So using the moorings site as an example... I can get a 2011 beneteau 43 for about 120K. A 2008 beneteau 50 for 150K.

For boats this age, I figure I would have to replace the sails and rigging to feel safe. If I buy an older boat. (90's) I assume I would have to spend a ton of money on the engine (10,000?) so I feel comfortable with ocean crossing. Also those engines may not be in production anymore and may be hard to get parts for.

If a new boat was better, I would go to France and get one. My guess is a new boat will depreciate most though.

Even if I don't cross the pacific, I understand that Seattle is a good place to sell a boat. Since I assume it can take a year or more to sell a boat, I may as well have the boat close to me while it waits for a buyer. So a boat capable of getting from panama to Seattle is another criteria. I understand this trip is not trivial and I am not sure how to solve that problem right now. I was asking myself if I would motor north along to coast for $10,000 - I probably would. The other shortest sailing route is via hawaii. I understand that the ocean outside oregon and washington is rough.
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Old 28-09-2017, 11:50   #2
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

Sounds like a typical dream. Do yourself a favor - lock yourself in a wet, humid cramped closet for a week while standing on a 20 degree heel for the entire time. . Pretend to be seasick for half that period so no need for much food in the closet. And forget getting more than a few hours of restful sleep.
When you emerge, re-read your questions.

This from someone who has cruised from the U.S. East coast to New Zealand so I know what it's like. And yes, I would do it again given the time. But once is enough.
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Old 28-09-2017, 12:35   #3
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

Thanks for taking time to reply.

(So you are suggesting I get a CAT so the ride is smoother?)

So the miserable part is the open ocean? That is why that is not a full day dream. Just an outside possibility.

The Caribbean is not that bad - is it? The times I have been there have been very nice.

What did you like about your crossing? Why did you do it. For me, the thought of being trapped on a boat for 3 weeks with nothing to do seems appealing. (but I imagine following seas and just a few squalls.)

My real question is about budgeting for it. What is the best boat to buy and lose as little as possible when I sell it?
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Old 28-09-2017, 13:06   #4
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

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Originally Posted by brackebusch View Post
For boats this age, I figure I would have to replace the sails and rigging to feel safe. If I buy an older boat. (90's) I assume I would have to spend a ton of money on the engine (10,000?) so I feel comfortable with ocean crossing. Also those engines may not be in production anymore and may be hard to get parts for.
There are lots of boats from that era that have been repowered, even if they have not hit 10k hours. In fact, there are a lot of boats from the 90's that have been completely refit.

Financially, your best strategy is to find a boat that has been recently refit but is unexpectedly on the market due to health issues, change of plans, etc. With a refit and boat's depreciation tends to plateau for a couple of years, then start the decline again.

Most definitely, if you want to potentially sell in a couple of years you want a boat that requires minimal work/refitting, as you're not going to get much of that money back.
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Old 28-09-2017, 13:18   #5
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

Honestly, you seem to be focusing on the cost side of the cruising lifestyle, and that side most often loses. Sailing/cruising for most of us is a spreadsheet that we work hard to keep minimally red. Sailing in a strict twelve-month, one-time window, and romantic dreams of sailing the world are not compatible. My advice is to temper what you want with what you're willing to pay, financially and emotionally. A sailing vessel is not an asset that can be liquidated at the drop of a hat, and a sailing lifestyle requires a commitment of body and mind that is not compatible with a twelve month "Okay, I'm out of here" mind set. Just MHO. Strategic charters might be more conducive to your desires than yacht ownership. Whatever you choose, fair winds.
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Old 28-09-2017, 13:28   #6
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

Thanks.

So you suggest older boats with more upgrades over boats coming out of charter?

Given one of the boats you suggest. About how much should I expect to lose? 10% to sell it, plus 20K depreciation? What is a cautious way to look at it. I am not counting that boats in Seattle cost more than boats in the Caribbean - if that comes true - it is a bonus.

I was thinking I 90's boat would require $10,000 of repair. I called a diesel shop and they tossed out that number to replace all the things they could think of. fuel pump, alternator, parts that get salt water on them..(I can't remember exactly - and I am sure they said less than that - I round up so I am not disappointed.)
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Old 28-09-2017, 13:29   #7
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

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Originally Posted by brackebusch View Post
There are lots of boats from that era that have been repowered, even if they have not hit 10k hours. In fact, there are a lot of boats from the 90's that have been completely refit.

Financially, your best strategy is to find a boat that has been recently refit but is unexpectedly on the market due to health issues, change of plans, etc. With a refit and boat's depreciation tends to plateau for a couple of years, then start the decline again.

Most definitely, if you want to potentially sell in a couple of years you want a boat that requires minimal work/refitting, as you're not going to get much of that money back

Thanks.

So you suggest older boats with more upgrades over boats coming out of charter?

Given one of the boats you suggest. About how much should I expect to lose? 10% to sell it, plus 20K depreciation? What is a cautious way to look at it. I am not counting that boats in Seattle cost more than boats in the Caribbean - if that comes true - it is a bonus.

I was thinking I 90's boat would require $10,000 of repair. I called a diesel shop and they tossed out that number to replace all the things they could think of. fuel pump, alternator, parts that get salt water on them..(I can't remember exactly - and I am sure they said less than that - I round up so I am not disappointed.)
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Old 28-09-2017, 13:45   #8
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

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Originally Posted by danielamartindm View Post
Honestly, you seem to be focusing on the cost side of the cruising lifestyle, and that side most often loses. Sailing/cruising for most of us is a spreadsheet that we work hard to keep minimally red. Sailing in a strict twelve-month, one-time window, and romantic dreams of sailing the world are not compatible. My advice is to temper what you want with what you're willing to pay, financially and emotionally. A sailing vessel is not an asset that can be liquidated at the drop of a hat, and a sailing lifestyle requires a commitment of body and mind that is not amenable to a twelve months "Okay, I'm out of here" mind set. Just MHO.
I fully admit you are finding a character weakness I have. I can stand in the grocery isle and debate to myself if the extra pleasure I get from product X is worth the extra money. (I am working on that I tell myself time cost of that vacillation is too expensive. I could be adding financial value to my life while I stand there. Only half kidding.)

I will continue to work after I play for a bit. So far I just work. If I had a boat in the Puget sound - I would not have time to use it. I would just be paying high mooring fees for nothing. So I figure if I dedicate time to play I will get full value out of my costs. I want to look my wife in the eyes and say - we are going to play for a season, and playing on a boat is going to cost no more than X. (other expense are the same if played on land or sea) I just spent 6K for 2 weeks in the bvi. This has to cheaper than that.

About how long does it take to sell a boat. Is a year long enough? Or does it take considerably longer. is a 50 foot boat harder to sell than a 43?

Now if I can get the boat to Seattle - I will find a way to use the boat. (Sailing here is nothing like the Caribbean - I am going to move somewhere warmer... ) But I have to enter real life again. Hopefully at a less stressful pace than I live now. This is my version of escapism. I say if I had to buy a boat today I would get....
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Old 28-09-2017, 13:54   #9
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

Maybe its the ocean? At least to us the Atlantic East to West was OK. Not miserable at all.


Budget: Depends...

End of 2010 we bought a 1999 Lagoon 410 in Spain, a real bargain. Upgraded a bit here and there, run through a big maintenance bill, and left mid 2011 for cruising the Balearic islands, southern Spain, Canary islands, Cap Verde islands, then across the Atlantic for a season in the Caribbean.

There we sold the boat in 2012 and recovered not only the initial purchase price but also all upgrade, maintenance and storage cost for these two years. Plus some change.

But: Real bargains are rare!

Back then my seller had a production slot for a Ferrari California, but his wife demanded that he sells one toy before buying another one. The slot was about to expire so we had ten days from first contact to cash payment and handover (with Xmas in between!).

This guy didn't care about the money. He was happy to get rid of this toy in time.
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Old 28-09-2017, 14:24   #10
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

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Originally Posted by brackebusch View Post
Thanks for taking time to reply.

(So you are suggesting I get a CAT so the ride is smoother?)

So the miserable part is the open ocean? That is why that is not a full day dream. Just an outside possibility.

The Caribbean is not that bad - is it? The times I have been there have been very nice.

What did you like about your crossing? Why did you do it. For me, the thought of being trapped on a boat for 3 weeks with nothing to do seems appealing. (but I imagine following seas and just a few squalls.)

My real question is about budgeting for it. What is the best boat to buy and lose as little as possible when I sell it?
SOn -you need enough bucks for a 50 cat and a crew! least a million
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Old 28-09-2017, 14:42   #11
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

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Originally Posted by brackebusch View Post
Thanks for taking time to reply.

(So you are suggesting I get a CAT so the ride is smoother?)

So the miserable part is the open ocean? That is why that is not a full day dream. Just an outside possibility.

The Caribbean is not that bad - is it? The times I have been there have been very nice.

What did you like about your crossing? Why did you do it. For me, the thought of being trapped on a boat for 3 weeks with nothing to do seems appealing. (but I imagine following seas and just a few squalls.)

My real question is about budgeting for it. What is the best boat to buy and lose as little as possible when I sell it?
The most popular quality boats are easiest to sell if the price is lower than others like it-- However they also cost a lot more initially used whether in great shape or not The maintenance on these are as much or more than the cheaper ones as they share the same wear-outable components . Sail cruising costs big bucks any way you look at it unless you want to scronge and scrape all the time. Owning but not cruising a 42-46 sailboat costs 1200 to 151600 a month most anywhere just to let it sit and keep the repairs up and haul outs dockage Insurance --not to mention cleaning decks weekly or more from the bird poop, plus your travel costs and crew feeding crew travel-- etc etc. and face it -you will never recover any of these type costs and will lose these costs plus a definite depreciation cost ----- you mentioned 1 year to sell -ok if that's possible then deduct 10% for a broker and the aforementioned "holding costs" of say 1200 month that's $15000 for a years holding and if boats selling is
120000 then add 12000 for the broker there is a 27000 loss right there you haven't firgured on.......now add in the costs when you actually use the boaty LOLOLOLOl
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Old 28-09-2017, 14:44   #12
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

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The most popular quality boats are easiest to sell if the price is lower than others like it-- However they also cost a lot more initially used whether in great shape or not The maintenance on these are as much or more than the cheaper ones as they share the same wear-outable components . Sail cruising costs big bucks any way you look at it unless you want to scronge and scrape all the time. Owning but not cruising a 42-46 sailboat costs 1200 to 151600 a month most anywhere just to let it sit and keep the repairs up and haul outs dockage Insurance --not to mention cleaning decks weekly or more from the bird poop, plus your travel costs and crew feeding crew travel-- etc etc. and face it -you will never recover any of these type costs and will lose these costs plus a definite depreciation cost ----- you mentioned 1 year to sell -ok if that's possible then deduct 10% for a broker and the aforementioned "holding costs" of say 1200 month that's $15000 for a years holding and if boats selling is
120000 then add 12000 for the broker there is a 27000 loss right there you haven't firgured on.......now add in the costs when you actually use the boaty LOLOLOLOl
By the way -price for a engine installed on this size boat is more like $20000 than $10000 LOLOLOL to replace a Raymarine wind instrument that has gone bad is $1500 LOLOLOL
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Old 28-09-2017, 14:45   #13
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

Just a thought exercise:

I personally would discount the ex-charter for your purposes because I imagine they come out of charter at the point where the owner thinks they're about to need significant money to keep them up to standard. Maybe that will be in a couple of years or maybe it will happen on your watch.

But if you get an older boat that's in good shape and maintain it in the same condition, then in theory all you lose is depreciation which, after a certain age, is less rapid.

Of course this is pure speculation. There's way too many variables to have any confidence in whatever you estimate - you might actually make some money (bloody unlikely) or you could lose a bundle. If you can't afford to take the risk then stick to charters.

FWIW, I recently did a similar-ish analysis, and chartering would probably have made more financial sense than ownership. But I bought a boat because that allows me to sail on my terms, and charters didn't.
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Old 28-09-2017, 15:12   #14
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

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By the way -price for a engine installed on this size boat is more like $20000 than $10000 LOLOLOL to replace a Raymarine wind instrument that has gone bad is $1500 LOLOLOL
I was thinking $10 for preventative maintenance on a good engine.

OK I lose 30,000 + sails and rigging and if an older boat engine tune up.

60K to use a boat. At 3,000 a week for charter, I don't break even for 20 weeks. The problem is I am tired of sailing around the BVI and am looking for wider travels....

That is more than I was hoping for - but it is why I asked.
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Old 28-09-2017, 15:12   #15
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

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Just a thought exercise:

I personally would discount the ex-charter for your purposes because I imagine they come out of charter at the point where the owner thinks they're about to need significant money to keep them up to standard. Maybe that will be in a couple of years or maybe it will happen on your watch.

But if you get an older boat that's in good shape and maintain it in the same condition, then in theory all you lose is depreciation which, after a certain age, is less rapid.

Of course this is pure speculation. There's way too many variables to have any confidence in whatever you estimate - you might actually make some money (bloody unlikely) or you could lose a bundle. If you can't afford to take the risk then stick to charters.

FWIW, I recently did a similar-ish analysis, and chartering would probably have made more financial sense than ownership. But I bought a boat because that allows me to sail on my terms, and charters didn't.
Moorings says they will fix anything that the survey finds. Not sure if that is a big deal or not.

Last time I wanted to sail to Culebra and they said no.
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