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Old 28-09-2017, 16:55   #16
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

Sounds like Brackebusch is smarter than the naysayers.....
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Old 28-09-2017, 17:07   #17
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

What's this fixation on ownership costs, re-sale losses, etc? People don't blink an eye paying rent for years and years, sometimes decades - money they will never recover. Nor is there any joy/pride of ownership, etc. But the moment it is about a boat - all of a sudden - oh, I can't bear to lose $XX on this or that. Just buy the best freaking thing you can afford, sail/use the heck out of it and be happy to get any $$ back when you're done. If you think you're not getting enough on resale - just sail some more, until satisfied, then sell. Can't take your $$ with you to the grave anyway. But meanwhile might as well live the way you want to live.
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Old 28-09-2017, 17:39   #18
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

It is exactly like cars. Boats are viable for longer than cars but everything else is the same.

1. If you do not know much about boating, charter for a week.

2. If you want to get into boating, you need to buy a boat. There is no two year lease or the equivalent. If you buy knew, you get hit by the depreciation. If you buy old, you may or may not get lucky with maintenance.

3. Popular and ex-charter boats sell quickly, so they are a good candidate for a two year venture. They will sell for less in two years time but you will lose the least amount of money.

4. If you find out that you love boating, get out of the charter boat and get a proper boat.

5. Do not invest much in the boat if you will keep in short term. Basic maintenance and that's it.
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Old 28-09-2017, 17:53   #19
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

My wife is Chinese and wanted to visit Europe last year so we bought a 28ft Contessa and spent 5 months on it in Europe and UK. It had a good owner and needed no expenditures. We lived as cheaply as possible and seldom ate out. The total cost of the 5 months including airfares from Australia, money lost on the resale of the boat, food, side trips etc was $21,000 Australian, ( 16,500 US ).

I figured if we bought a small cheap boat we could not lose much even if it sank etc. The boat coat us 15,000 euros, sold it cheap.
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Old 29-09-2017, 06:04   #20
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

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Originally Posted by picklesandjesse View Post
My wife is Chinese and wanted to visit Europe last year so we bought a 28ft Contessa and spent 5 months on it in Europe and UK. It had a good owner and needed no expenditures. We lived as cheaply as possible and seldom ate out. The total cost of the 5 months including airfares from Australia, money lost on the resale of the boat, food, side trips etc was $21,000 Australian, ( 16,500 US ).

I figured if we bought a small cheap boat we could not lose much even if it sank etc. The boat coat us 15,000 euros, sold it cheap.
That is the general idea. Now the question is the amount I lose somewhat constant - if it is then I may as well get a nicer boat. OTOH - perhaps your model is better - the less you spend the less you risk.
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Old 29-09-2017, 07:00   #21
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

I was interested in a similar question when I did a short cruise. Like picklesandjesse, I figured it was better to have an idea of the max you could lose. So, I too bought a small inexpensive boat and then just sold it for less than I bought it (sold within two weeks of making the decision to sell). With that approach, the most you can lose is everything you invested, and you have total control of that amount.

However, that limits you to older, smaller monos. If you want something nicer, you've got to take the risk at resale. Somewhat paradoxically, I would argue that you may not want a boat that has a large, used market, like a Catalina XX. There are so many years of inventory that a potential buyer can always find a cheaper one and try to beat the price up or just buy the cheaper boat. Instead, I would be looking at a multihull where used boats are harder to come by. Older Fboats in particular seem to have very sticky prices on the used market, and if you go for an F31 or slightly larger (Condor 36), location isn't necessarily a constraint, as they can be ground shipped.
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Old 29-09-2017, 09:05   #22
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

I'll let you in on a secret financial tip that will help you achieve your goal of not losing too much on a sailboat. But its a well guarded secret, so don't be telling everyone (or anyone). I shouldn't even be saying it here...its just that significant...but here it is:

Buy low, sell high.

Okay...do you got it now? Just 4 words, not hard to remember...but just about everyone I know personally buys HIGH and sells LOW. After years of study, I've come up with 2 simple rule to go along with this strategy which guarantees success...here are my 2 rules:

1) Buy Low.
2) Sell High.

The problem is with number 2. You can't do number 2 unless you successfully did number 1. So really the entire strategy is based on rule number 1. So just to make things simple for you, we can reduce the 4 word strategy (buy high, sell low) to just 2 simple words....BUY LOW.

OK. Thats everything you need to know about finance. Its amazing how many people like to buy high, and then get all uppetty about it later. Don't be like them. Be smart. Buy LOW.

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Old 29-09-2017, 09:06   #23
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

I have owned several monohulls over more than 40 years. The fixers uppers sold for about the same except for a 36 foot Lancer that appreciated by 400%. The ready to sail away boats depreciated some. it depends a lot on the national economy. Our current boats are probably worth more than we paid for them. We bought the Cape George only a bit into the recovery from the Great Recession, plus we have consistently upgraded her. The Cape Dory is still beat to death awaiting her place in the line of importance in my life.
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Old 29-09-2017, 21:37   #24
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

Any Tayana--but preferably the affordable ones such as a Tayana 41 or a 37.
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Old 29-09-2017, 23:34   #25
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

Here is my take. Sir, are u aware that you can request a boat broker to show you all the resell contracts on any boat? So, for example if you were interested in a 40 foot, something, French cat ( name your company) he can spreadsheet for you a decent spread between purchase price versus sale price.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to know what your downside risk is financially. May I ask you what experience level is with sailing big boats? Does your sweetie have big boat experience also? Many guys after using a boat hard for a year or two will put out the effort into returning her to prime condition. For some it is is an effort to get best price. But for many sailors it is a thing of respect that is hard to translate if you don't know what it is to have fallen in love with your boat.
Nonetheless, it is shocking how expensive boats can be. You can spend all of your time getting educated. It is s steep learning curve. There are thousands of years of cumulative knowledge here. Wish u the best.
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Old 30-09-2017, 12:15   #26
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

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Originally Posted by S/V Illusion View Post
Sounds like a typical dream. Do yourself a favor - lock yourself in a wet, humid cramped closet for a week while standing on a 20 degree heel for the entire time. . Pretend to be seasick for half that period so no need for much food in the closet. And forget getting more than a few hours of restful sleep.
When you emerge, re-read your questions.

This from someone who has cruised from the U.S. East coast to New Zealand so I know what it's like. And yes, I would do it again given the time. But once is enough.
Too damn funny. You made my day with this response.

Cheers!
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:40   #27
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

I have chartered 40 foot mono hulls about 10 times?. I am not sure those count as big boats or not.
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Old 01-10-2017, 07:59   #28
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

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I have chartered 40 foot mono hulls about 10 times?. I am not sure those count as big boats or not.
Absolutely.

On the cost front, older boats are subject to less depreciation but more maintenance, so it's a bit of a tightrope to walk. Buying an older boat that will hold it's value only to have one or two or even more major systems fail in a year or two negates that logic.

There is no general rule, other than the fact that new production class boats depreciate rapidly during their first few years out of the factory. If you can find one several years old that is well kept, it should hold it's value reasonably well for a couple more years, provided nothing major breaks. If you can find an old one that has been well maintained and most of the major systems are new, that could hold it's value well as well.

As for $10k to totally go over an engine, that is a worst case scenario and is getting very close to if not past the repowering threshold. A new diesel is going to run you $15k with the installation cost varying widely based on engine access. FWIW, a recent repower does more to maintain a boat's value than any other upgrade.
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Old 06-02-2018, 20:25   #29
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

I just finished what you are planning to do. Bought a boat out of charter in Virgin Islands, cruised around during my vacation time and then sailed it up to seattle in one week chunks over the course of a year. Two years after purchase, I now have one of the only Leopard 384s in the pacific northwest and love it! Iím current chartering it through Anacortes Yacht Charters (Nansea Minna) to recoup some of the cost. My financials....
190K for the boat
100K for the refit and repairs, travel, fees, gas, permits, everything
Could probably sell the boat now for 250-275 here in Seattle.

By the way, the sail from the Carribean to Pacific side of Nicaragua was a dream! Then started the uphill battle all the way to Seattle. Only way to get the wind at your back is to ride the back end of storms which is obviously tricky.

Cheers!
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Old 06-02-2018, 21:47   #30
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Re: Best sailboat to buy and use for 2 years (and get as much money back as possible)

Does not seem to add up favorably-spent 290-worth 240 ??Oh well you had fun going 3000 miles upcurrent and upwind. one week at a time.
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