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Old 16-02-2010, 20:46   #31
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I am staying with local companies, or at least made in countries whose politics I understand. I am tired of this capitalism disconnect with morality. I will no longer buy from those that kill other people- yeah I know that may include Raytheon.
I don't think sailmakers actually kill people
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Old 16-02-2010, 21:25   #32
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No maybe about that! Raytheon is one of the biggest suppliers of electronics for arms and is making a mint from these "wars of economic domination". I for one am sick and tired of a company buying for 1$ from a place that pays people peanuts then shipping it to another country where they sell it for 50$ to some guy who sells it to us at 95$ and on top of that claim it cost them 35$ so pay bug*#r all in taxes - taking pure profit between countries. Stick with the local guy for sure and ask him to only use materials from countries you agree with. Or if you must then go directly to the factory in China yourself cutting out the greedy middlemen.
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Old 16-02-2010, 21:26   #33
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BTW if you do go direct tell them you live in South East Asia so if their prices are not in line with the local market you will use another loft. It will amaze you what happens to the price then!
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Old 16-02-2010, 21:52   #34
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Would not hesitate to use Mac Sails for the third time when and if that ever rolls around.
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Old 17-02-2010, 01:02   #35
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RE: Raymarine/Raytheon, I believe that Raymarine split off from Raytheon back in 2001, such that they are no longer connected.

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Old 24-02-2010, 21:06   #36
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After reading this thread it's pretty obvious there is some confusion about sailmakers and sailmaking. I do a seminar at boat shows about the globalization of sailmaking and reveal some fascinating facts about the the industry that other sailmakers would prefer people not know.

Rather than type half the night I am going to steer you to a well written article by Nigel Calder.

Professional BoatBuilder - October/November 2007

That should be a good start towards understanding the realities of 21st century sailmaking. Incidentally I have a lot of first hand experience working with the lofts mentioned in the article so if you have a specific question feel free to send me a PM.

Oh and for whoever said North Sails are made in China, that's news to me. Unless things have changed very recently most of them are made in Sri Lanka. If you do some research on Sri Lanka I think you'll find it's much more lax on workers rights, child labor law, and the like. Many manufacturing companies are moving out of China in favor of lower cost places to do business. Believe it or not China is not that cheap a place any longer. I wonder where we will be getting our sails built in ten years.
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Old 24-02-2010, 21:12   #37
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One thing I forgot to mention for those of you brave folks contemplating dealing direct with an Asian loft. You may be asked to pay by wire transfer. If you do so, keep in mind there is no recourse if you have a problem with the sail. If you pay with a credit card, which I recommend highly, you have some recourse through the credit card company if the product does not arrive or is not made to your specifications. That goes for any online purchase, not just sails of course.
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Old 24-02-2010, 21:50   #38
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I bought two new sails last year from Dirk at National Sail Supply in Florida. He is a rep for Rolly Tasker. Dirk made it easy and foolproof to do the measuring and was extremely helpful throughout the whole process. The sails turned out beautifully, excellent workmanship and the same top quality cloth that the "local" lofts were quoting me - for half the cost. I ordered a RF high clew genoa and a RF staysail. Both are full offshore quality with triple stitching, foam luff, leech line, hand stitched leather chafe protection, tell tales, etc. I've bought several other sails from major lofts and I would rate these as good or better than any of them.
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Old 25-02-2010, 00:06   #39
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G'day Guys.

I'm interested in H/V Vegas comments about Rolly Tasker Sails. We are currently negotiating with them for a complete new sail wardrobe for 'Spirit of Sobraon' for our trip to Alaska.
The rep here in Australia has been very knowledgeable and helpful and we are seriously considering his quote.
Vegas, did you actually buy a set of sails from Taskers that you weren't happy with to make your opening criticism of there work.or is it a dislike for the fact that they are manufactured in Thailand?

Fair Winds

Garry and Wendy
SV 'Spirit of Sobraon'
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Old 25-02-2010, 04:04   #40
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Where shall I start. 1st I have no problem with Thailand or Thai work. In fact the boat yard we use is in Thailand and we have more than once sailed the equal of an Atlantic crossing to go there. Why? Because their workmanship is first class and the prices would be very hard to beat. No my problem with Tasker is more to do with pricing and materials. He seems to think he is in Europe or The US when he make up a quote. Example We needed a running sail. About 130 sq meters flat cut square sail. About the easiest thing a loft can make. I ask several places for quotes including tasker and Hood in Mass. USA. Tasker quoted using that cheap china cloth he uses and Hood quoted using their special tall ships weave in Tan Bark color. At the time we were about 120 miles from Taskers shop in Langkawi. When the quotes came back Hood was cheaper by more than just a bit including air freight. In the end we wound up using Sean Lidgard in NZ. and I would strongly recommend him to you. Not only were his prices great and he uses Bainbrige challenge sail cloth, but the workmanship was very good.
Now if I can stop laughing long enough at IslandPlanets comments I think in 10 years it will be the Chinise having their yachts sails made in the US and using a tiny part of the interest on their loans to the US to pay for them, and the yachts.....
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Old 25-02-2010, 04:08   #41
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By the way Islandplanet I was not at all laughing at your wise words and advice. I was laughing at the image of The US making sails for China in a few more years.
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Old 25-02-2010, 08:47   #42
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The workmanship I have seen in China made sails was great. Materials were exactly what we used in our NZ loft. The quality control was by sailmakers with plenty of experience. What's the issue? All major brands still make plenty of their sails in-house in lofts troughout the US, UK, NZ, Aus... If I go to my Swedish sailmaker in Goteborg, they WILL NOT send my order to China, they will make the sail locally. The same applies to plenty of UK based lofts (I can't say about the US though). I think what is made in China are the mass production sails sold with mass production boats.

Child workforce, etc issues are fine to discuss - on a case by case basis, and if any sailmaker found guilty of such, just do not buy sails from them. But isolated cases of aberrations should not be used to give the whole industry bad name.

Laughing off the possibility of US workforce making sails for China clients in foreseeable future, well, look at the numbers - and pray that the Chinese ask to be paid back your debt in US sails rather than in US dollars ;-)))

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Old 25-02-2010, 10:14   #43
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Where can I get a quote from China Sail Factory?
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Old 25-02-2010, 12:35   #44
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Where can I get a quote from China Sail Factory?
You don't, the article clearly states they don't deal with customers. So I guess you just call any big sailmaker and request the sail being made by CSF.

cheers,
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Old 25-02-2010, 18:10   #45
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CSF has a website and they clearly invite you to ask for a quote. I just wonder if Barnakel has considered that at this rate in a few years the dollar will have so little value that sails maybe all China will want in trade. But look at the bright side think of all the lovely wars America will have used those loans to pay for. Of coarse never, never, ask what better uses that money could have been put to.
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