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Old 21-09-2015, 08:59   #61
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Re: Best quality coastal cruiser

BTW Paul, I heartily agree with you. I just think the op doesn't want to hear it. I see he's come around to a standard configuration. Lot's of boats you can solo...just need the skills. I started with a Catalina 27, the vw of coastal cruisers.
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Old 21-09-2015, 09:05   #62
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Re: Best quality coastal cruiser

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Originally Posted by Paul J. Nolan View Post
Look, he asked for advice and I gave it. My position is simply: learn to sail before you buy a big boat. Not a radical stance, is it? Yet, immediately the cacophony arises: "No,no,no!" "You don't need to learn!" "I never learned to sail and look at me now!". Well, I respectfully disagree.

Seven decades have left me with a few strong opinions (some might say, "Way too many strong opinions.")

1) people coming into the sport should first learn to sail. I mean the basic blocking and tackling: how to sail a beat, reach, run. How to tack and jibe. How to steer, how to steer a compass course. How to set and trim sails. How to sail in light, moderate, and heavy air. Etc.

2) One learns more, better and faster in a small boat than a big one.

3) The Laser, for many reasons, is the best small boat in the world.

4) Some exposure to racing will hone your skills, skills on which you will rely many, many times in future years.

That's my advice. Take it or leave it.

Paul, now outta this thread.
Good advice!

It reminds me of a time I was sailing home from Pensacola Beach late in the day on my Nacra 6.0 catamaran.

Coming into Bayou Grande is a very narrow channel maybe 40' or so wide and you can just sail in on a SW wind if your boat can point 30 degrees off the wind or better.

Anyway, this guy is coming out on a large, beautiful full keeler maybe 35' - 40' long. One look at his face tells me he is totally unsure of himself and wishes he didn't have his sails up even though its a downwind sail out the channel. Maybe it was because the jetty was on his side. My boat's weight was about 400 lbs plus crew of two. An experienced Skipper would probably have just crowded me a bit if the jetty was a concern.

I gave him plenty of room also but he and his wife are yelling at me to " get out of the Channel!" I had my 4' boards all the way down so there is no way I could get outta the channel since there was about 8"-1' of water 6'-8' to my right.

Needless to say we had a lively discussion as we passed each other ......

The point is a bit more experience on his part and we would probably have just waved as we passed instead of seeing who had the best 4 letter word vocabulary.
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Old 21-09-2015, 09:17   #63
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Re: Best quality coastal cruiser

Why electric winches? More systems more potential problems. With proper sized winched and other systems plus properly set up equipment you should easily be able to single hand a vessel up to the size you are looking at.
Just as an aside any vessel ideally should be set up to be single handed. Never know when you will have that
Requirement
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Old 21-09-2015, 09:34   #64
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Re: Best quality coastal cruiser

I had some similar requirements, like getting a good quality boat and no interest in racing. I ended up buying a Nauticat 32. Only one head, so it doesn't meet all your requirements. Might be also a bit too expensive. If you are even less interested in racing level sailing performance than I was, then Nauticat's motor sailor line models like Nauticat 33 could be better for you. They are spacious, and older models can be cheaper too.
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Old 21-09-2015, 09:36   #65
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Re: Best quality coastal cruiser

I am just doing basic simple cruising and don't need a massive boat nor racing so I really don't see point of sailing a 10' Laser. I found some good deals in San Diego under 40k:

Used 1976 Cal Yachts 27, San Diego, Ca - 92106 - BoatTrader.com

Something like this works.
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Old 21-09-2015, 09:49   #66
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Re: Best quality coastal cruiser

Look at Catalina 30. There is a reason they sold so many
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Old 21-09-2015, 10:21   #67
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Re: Best quality coastal cruiser

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Originally Posted by sjenner View Post
I am just doing basic simple cruising and don't need a massive boat nor racing so I really don't see point of sailing a 10' Laser. I found some good deals in San Diego under 40k:

Used 1976 Cal Yachts 27, San Diego, Ca - 92106 - BoatTrader.com

Something like this works.
Well, it is a sailboat, at the lower end of your length range. Other than that, I don't think anyone would have thought to point you to this.

I do however, think it is a good option and certainly let's you see how this length can sleep 4 without having a second cabin.
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Old 21-09-2015, 10:27   #68
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Re: Best quality coastal cruiser

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Understand. With super expensive slip fees in San Diego, smaller is better. My requirements are:

2 cabins and 2 heads for sleeping 2-4 people
electric winches
single handed sail ability


So thinking 30'-33' would be good range and not kill me on slip fees. Above 33' the slip fees are outrageous.
two cabins, two heads, electric wenches? on a 33' boat? as others have said you really need to narrow down what you are looking for. i've never seen a 33 foot and under boat with two separate state rooms and certainly not two heads. and slip fees in san diego are no more expensive than the majority of slips in socal so with your budget if you cannot afford the minor monthly slip rent increase of a few feet you probably can't afford a boat with good cruise and livaboard capabilities anyway.
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Old 21-09-2015, 10:54   #69
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Re: Best quality coastal cruiser

For 2 cabins and 2 heads you are going to need to look at your 35 ft range.... and 2 heads will still be hard to find. OTOH, if 2 cabins and one head works you can get that in 30-32 ft.
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Old 21-09-2015, 11:25   #70
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Re: Best quality coastal cruiser

I can't resist because I love boat buying threads. When most boats say two cabins, it usually just means there is a door to the vberth. If you want two staterooms (which it sounds like you are looking for), the listings will usually say three cabins as brokers will count the salo(o)n as a cabin.
No matter what boat you buy, research the model and builder before buying it. Don't quote me, but some cals used an iron crosspiece to brace the mast step that frequently corrodes and it sounds like a PITA to repair. The boats you are looking at will probably be old enough that their issues are well known. Smaller Pearsons, for instance, can have mast step issues as well where the aluminum mast is eaten away at the base, and the chain plates can sometimes be corroded inside the deck (damage you can't see), leading to failure. Good luck and happy hunting!



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Old 21-09-2015, 11:28   #71
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Re: Best quality coastal cruiser

Thanks folks for all the helpful advice even to Paul who comes across as an old salty dog. I have plenty to consider. For now I will rent until I have the data synthesized. I do see great deals on boats between 25-40' in my budget with 1-2 cabins and 1 head. Having two nice full sized state rooms would be awesome but not mandatory if a better deal on a higher quality well maintained boat comes up. I don't want to buy a boat thousands of miles away so looking in San Diego/OC area is optimal.
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Old 21-09-2015, 12:15   #72
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Re: Best quality coastal cruiser

You'll do OK. Just get out and sail. Boats may look good on paper and be a disaster. I ended up with a Valiant. You're milage may differ...
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Old 21-09-2015, 12:16   #73
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Re: Best quality coastal cruiser

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BTW Paul, I heartily agree with you. I just think the op doesn't want to hear it.
They never want to hear it. No doubt he wrinkled up his nose just like the Backstay Woman. They and many others I have encountered over the years remind me of an observation made by a tennis coach forty years ago, "There is no end of people eager to spend $200 on a fancy raquet. Rare is the player who will spend two hours working on his ground stroke."

Paul
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Old 21-09-2015, 12:45   #74
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Re: Best quality coastal cruiser

I am not sure your "requirements" are born of sailing experience, as they are not borne out in the practice of coastal cruising.. For example while there are plenty of decent 35ft boats out there.. SOME may have a separate aft cabin, but none will have 2 heads (space) nor electric winches (just not needed).

Of the many folk i know, and i suspect a reasonable segment here would agree that regular cruising with 2 couples is best done in a larger boat than 35ft, so either set your sights on your "requirements" and move up to 40+ft for 2 heads, 2 cabins and electric winches, or reset to a decent 35ft boat and live with what it has.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sjenner View Post
Understand. With super expensive slip fees in San Diego, smaller is better. My requirements are:

2 cabins and 2 heads for sleeping 2-4 people
electric winches
single handed sail ability


So thinking 30'-33' would be good range and not kill me on slip fees. Above 33' the slip fees are outrageous.
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Old 21-09-2015, 13:00   #75
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Re: Best quality coastal cruiser

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Originally Posted by Paul J. Nolan View Post
They never want to hear it. No doubt he wrinkled up his nose just like the Backstay Woman. They and many others I have encountered over the years remind me of an observation made by a tennis coach forty years ago, "There is no end of people eager to spend $200 on a fancy raquet. Rare is the player who will spend two hours working on his ground stroke."

Paul
I didn't like your advice either, but we all have a right to our opinion. I'm glad you posted yours. It would be boring if we all agreed. It just seems that you have your opinion and it is inflexible, even when presented with advice and stories from others that it doesn't have to be that way. But I go out and practice different skills for two hours all the time. I practice reefing in light wind so I get the technique down just right, I practice heaving two, I practice sail trim.

I read charts, and books on how to read charts, I plot imaginary waypoints, I practice with my compass.

I read books, I ask questions online. I read my manuals, I tinker with my engine, all sorts of things. I think all of these things will prepare me better than your advice. I am learning my boat like the back of my hand. Even my projects that don't work right away teach me something, like working on my electronics failures for a while showed me what all the wires go to and why.

But I don't want to spend four years sailing dinghies before I can buy a keelboat. I just don't think it's good advice. I think the best way to learn how to coastal cruise is to buy a keel boat and practice coastal cruising.

There are just so many things you need to learn, I think perfect sail trim is really far down the list. Of all the things on the water that can put you and others in danger, is perfect sail trim going to save you? If I was caught in a storm in the Atlantic on a 35 foot boat and its owner, I would rather be with the owner that had owned the boat for a year and had been learning big boat skills, than the guy who just bought the boat, had never touched a Diesel engine, or a bilge pump or any of the systems on a big boat, but had spent a long time sailing lasers. Is he going to save us?
"Don't worry guys, I've sailed a lot of lasers, why are my batteries sitting in a cardboard box in a foot of water in the bilge? Why is my propane tank under the v berth? I don't know, lasers don't have those things."
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