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Old 27-02-2015, 15:00   #1
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Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

I'm curious on what people think the best couples cruising sailboats are. For me some of the items that would be part of a best couples boat would be (and this is to some degree based on my age):

- It would have a queen centerline berth. We need to get up at night and crawling over each other to do so gets old.
- It would have good size shower and the water/power capacity to take a good hot shower regularly and it would need to be able to hold us without banging an elbow every time you try to wash something
- It would have a gallery large to to hold more than 1 butt to be in it at a time
- I would have at table large enough to play a double 12 domino game (knocks out most center cockpit boats)
- it would have a good size freezer/frig for obvious reasons
- it would have enough fuel to motor at least 500 miles because we aren't getting younger and sometimes just want to get there
- it wouldn't have a bunch of steep steps to get down into the boat
- with wouldn't take a gymnast to work on the engine or get to the bottom of lockers
- the cockpit wouldn't require you to step up on the settees to get around the helm wheel
- it would be 45-50' because I know that is what it will take plus add the other space, storage and comfort a couple would like
- it would have a berth that makes a good sea berth other that the floor or the salon (good double aft berth would work)
-it would have an easy to handle sailplan even if that isn't as fast and would have oversize winches
- it would have a dry ride
- it would sail fairy flat and more than 15 degrees heel would not be needed to get to 80% hull speed on a close reach
- it would be easy to get on/off to the dock/dinghy/launch (knees)
- space for a guess couple, but not so great that they over-stay their welcome

Some of boats that I feel meet this are:
Outbound 46 - I think this is almost a perfect couples boat layout
Passport 485 Vista - fancier
Hunter 45 - great budget couple boat
Waterline 46-50 - fantastic steel boat

What some others, or boats that that you would add due to what you feel are couples boat features?
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Old 27-02-2015, 15:24   #2
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

Q: What is the Best Cruising Sailboat for a Couple?
A: There is no such thing.....

I know....I know...we want to have a 135 page thread about this so we can have something fun to do and talk about, I get it. I do that myself here when I should be updating my website, entering my CC charges in QB, or finishing the painting project of my front head so I can stop having to walk all the way to the aft head in the middle of the night to take a leak. (trust me my wife is about to kick my a#! over this

How can I make such a ludicrous killjoy comment about there being no such thing as the best Cruising Couple Sailboat? Easy. I've spent 4 years living in anchorages in Mexico and another 3 now in Morro Bay watching cruisers pass through heading South. Countless cockpit dinners and drinks. Then I've sold cruising gear to thousands of different cruisers and for almost every one of them I know their boat type. So I have a pretty good sample pool of real life Cruisers, not dreamers or internet experts, but cruisers. What I've seen is that almost EVERY ONE of them says they have the "Best Couples Boat". They bought and outfitted the boat they have because it fits their needs and most wouldn't change the boat they are cruising on. Oh sure they like to see "bigger and better" boats because they are cool and fun to look at, but they are happy and like what they have. And I've seen it all from 26ft to 65ft. You can't define the "best couples boat for Cruising" because you can't define: Cruising.

It's hard to explain but all of a sudden sometime in year 1, 2 or 3 of Cruising....all the things thought mattered....you will wake up one day and realize....holy ****....everything I though was important....well.....isn't.
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Old 27-02-2015, 15:28   #3
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Q: What is the Best Cruising Sailboat for a Couple?
A: There is no such thing.....
You ever have anything nice to post or is your whole thing here to look for things to trash?

I would say it is to look for things to trash because just look at all the time you took to explain how you didn't like the thread that somehow I must have made you read and respond to.
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Old 27-02-2015, 15:44   #4
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

Sailor boy I did not take 3 days post as trashing your thread. In any way.

Don't be so sensitive. It's his opinion from his experience and he makes a good point.

For me personally I want a cat as I means you can have guests aboard without invading the owner couples personal space . But it's just my opinion.

Cheers
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Old 27-02-2015, 15:47   #5
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

To turn the question around,
Do you always take comments that you may not agree with as negative and trashing?

Do you ask a question to get real answers or to validate your choice?

How it is being negative and trashing to say (and then explain my thinking process by the way) that there is no such thing as the Best Cruising Couples Boat?

There was no negativity or trashing in my comment...to the contrary, I took your assumption that if there is a Best, then there are "not bests" and said...Stop. That's wrong....Cruising is not about what boat you have despite what all of the internet experts that haven't been out cruising say and think! It's about going on what works for YOU.

I think that message that I'm selling is refreshing and many people want and more importantly NEED to hear. Why....because I have sold gear to people that DIED before they could go Cruising. They couldn't leave before the boat was "ready", before they had all the "right" gear, before they had all the "adequate" cruising budget...on and on and on. I actually told a guy at the Miami show that was saving for one of my water maker before he could go cruising to forget it....forget about the water maker GO NOW!

He emailed me from the Bahamas because his dream came true and to thank me for pushing him out of the comfort NEST of "not being ready yet".

Now do the ultra have to do it "right" planners like my message....well maybe not, you don't seem to like it. But what you can't say is that I'm being negative or trashing, that's just not true. I'm the glass of cold water, the slap in the face or the champagne bottle across the bow to tell people to get there ASSES out there and GO Cruising!

It's hard being me....
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Old 27-02-2015, 15:50   #6
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
Q: What is the Best Cruising Sailboat for a Couple?
A: There is no such thing.....

Ok so you don't like Sailor's question. Try answering the related question, what would you consider the minimum for you and the Mrs? What are the 'Nice to Haves' on top of that and what would be luxuries you would be willing to cough up money for.


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Old 27-02-2015, 16:35   #7
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

Sailorboy,

A center queen is pretty useless underway with a heel without some significant lea-cloths.

Big galley? Not so safe underway with a heel if you have nowhere to brace.

Steps?

Dry ride?

Easy to handle?

Sailing Level?

Sounds like you want a cat.

Just having some fun. I love monos and cats, although my wife is adamantly a catamaran sailer.
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Old 27-02-2015, 16:43   #8
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

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Originally Posted by Grateful View Post
Sailorboy,

A center queen is pretty useless underway with a heel without some significant lea-cloths. did you read the seaberth item, but a crusier boat doesn't have to be the same as that mystery BWB

Big galley? Not so safe underway with a heel if you have nowhere to brace.

Steps?

Dry ride?

Easy to handle?

Sailing Level?

Sounds like you want a cat.

Just having some fun. I love monos and cats, although my wife is adamantly a catamaran sailer.
Does a cat do all of the items, which ones?
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Old 27-02-2015, 17:07   #9
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

We like the catamarans and particularly Lagoons. OK so some may say condomarans, but can't beat them for comfort, layout, space, ability to host family & friends, etc. Might motor sail a bit more, and might take a little longer to get to the anchorage but plan your travels and relax. 12 knots on a broad reach in 20-25 between St. Vincent and Grenada on a Lagoon 420 was adequate for me.

Anyways, that's the cruising sailboat for this couple!
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Old 27-02-2015, 17:08   #10
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

- It would have a queen centerline berth. We need to get up at night and crawling over each other to do so gets old.
- It would have good size shower and the water/power capacity to take a good hot shower regularly and it would need to be able to hold us without banging an elbow every time you try to wash something
- It would have a gallery large to to hold more than 1 butt to be in it at a time
- I would have at table large enough to play a double 12 domino game (knocks out most center cockpit boats)
- it would have a good size freezer/frig for obvious reasons
- it would have enough fuel to motor at least 500 miles because we aren't getting younger and sometimes just want to get there
- it wouldn't have a bunch of steep steps to get down into the boat
- with wouldn't take a gymnast to work on the engine or get to the bottom of lockers
- the cockpit wouldn't require you to step up on the settees to get around the helm wheel
- it would be 45-50' because I know that is what it will take plus add the other space, storage and comfort a couple would like
- it would have a berth that makes a good sea berth other that the floor or the salon (good double aft berth would work)
-it would have an easy to handle sailplan even if that isn't as fast and would have oversize winches
- it would have a dry ride
- it would sail fairly flat and more than 15 degrees heel would not be needed to get to 80% hull speed on a close reach
- it would be easy to get on/off to the dock/dinghy/launch (knees)
- space for a guess couple, but not so great that they over-stay their welcome

and add:
-it would have a 'working space' or third cabin we could use as an office.
-something to overwinter in.

I'm looking at all of this for a boat to take a one year (working) sabbatical on. It would likely be PNW cruising—not a lot of choice it seems.

Availability and budget keeps me coming back to the 40-45' Hunters. But I'm going to look into the Outland now...
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Old 27-02-2015, 18:00   #11
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
I'm curious on what people think the best couples cruising sailboats are. For me some of the items that would be part of a best couples boat would be (and this is to some degree based on my age):

- It would have a queen centerline berth. We need to get up at night and crawling over each other to do so gets old.
- It would have good size shower and the water/power capacity to take a good hot shower regularly and it would need to be able to hold us without banging an elbow every time you try to wash something
- It would have a gallery large to to hold more than 1 butt to be in it at a time
- I would have at table large enough to play a double 12 domino game (knocks out most center cockpit boats)
- it would have a good size freezer/frig for obvious reasons
- it would have enough fuel to motor at least 500 miles because we aren't getting younger and sometimes just want to get there
- it wouldn't have a bunch of steep steps to get down into the boat
- with wouldn't take a gymnast to work on the engine or get to the bottom of lockers
- the cockpit wouldn't require you to step up on the settees to get around the helm wheel
- it would be 45-50' because I know that is what it will take plus add the other space, storage and comfort a couple would like
- it would have a berth that makes a good sea berth other that the floor or the salon (good double aft berth would work)
-it would have an easy to handle sailplan even if that isn't as fast and would have oversize winches
- it would have a dry ride
- it would sail fairy flat and more than 15 degrees heel would not be needed to get to 80% hull speed on a close reach
- it would be easy to get on/off to the dock/dinghy/launch (knees)
- space for a guess couple, but not so great that they over-stay their welcome

Some of boats that I feel meet this are:
Outbound 46 - I think this is almost a perfect couples boat layout
Passport 485 Vista - fancier
Hunter 45 - great budget couple boat
Waterline 46-50 - fantastic steel boat

What some others, or boats that that you would add due to what you feel are couples boat features?

Hylas 49 and Taswell 49. On the centerline queen, hard to arrange without being CC versus AC. On ours, the U shaped galley is about 1.5 capacity of Bs. Both can be cutter or sloop. Two cabin or three. Room for washer-dryer combo and watermaker. AC Gen not stuffed into a cranny. No real workbench though, like the well thought out like the KP 46 has. Great storage for sails and bumpers, good access to thruster and windlass motor. Our centerline aft queen has an upright member that goes in the front and a fitting on the stern wall for a lee cloth while underway.

Stay away from teak decks though.
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Old 27-02-2015, 18:19   #12
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

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Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
Try answering the related question, what would you consider the minimum for you and the Mrs? What are the 'Nice to Haves' on top of that and what would be luxuries you would be willing to cough up money for.

We cruised on a 36ft boat with two kids with almost none of the comfort items…then on a 50fter with what many would view as comfort (washer/dryer, two Salons, huge freezer/fridge, and storage). What difference did it make in our Cruise Enjoyment? That’s just it…Absolutely Nothing! I’m telling you this because it’s something I hear from Cruisers all the time, but those that haven’t been cruising yet don’t think or understand: ” it ISN’T the BOAT!” I know it’s also not what people want to hear that convince themselves (and their spouse) that they HAVE to have the right boat or they won’t have a good time. Or the flip side that if we would have HAD a different boat we wouldn’t have ended our dream….BS I say.


The more I’m around this Cruising Industry Game….the more I don’t like giving this type of advice or participating in these type of “Best Boat” discussions because I think they do more harm than good to the cruisers in planning that are told they can’t do it without this, without that….on and on. For instance, I somehow managed to buy, outfit and cast off cruising without ever attending a Boat Show. I just never had the time nor desire in the days of the internet when I can research everything in piece and quiet without the “buy now for a once in a lifetime special”. Now that I go to boat shows, quite honestly, I hate them even more for the totally BS image they give cruisers in planning and dreamers. You gotta have this…you gotta have that…**** I would have never thought I could have went cruising if I would have been convinced I needed everything at the Boat Shows these days to have a fun and safe time…I would have given up in rejection and many do!


Look, I’m not trying to be an ass or a contrarian, as a business owner selling to cruisers for heaven’s sake, it doesn’t do me any good or self-promotion points to take this view. I should be right in there as a consummate YES MAN. But I can’t do it…I can’t sit here and say that what boat you go cruising on matters more than that you actually make it out cruising because I see it every damn day. A guy buys something from me and then 3yrs later the new owner of the boat calls me asking how to install or operate it. The original owner Joe has his health fail, his wife left him, his grandkids needed them to raise them, they stepped on a palm fawn and blew out their flip flop. I tell you, I have heard it all now on why they didn’t make it or why they were out for only 6 months and called it quits. And you know what…I’ve NEVER heard we didn’t like our boat! It’s always something else totally NON-Boat related…yet what are we worrying about?

I think this view is important in these type of "Best this or that" threads because when the planner/dreamer sees the topic, they will think oh..."there's what we need to know". Sure some of the details Sailorboy1 listed are important and hey...lets talk about them. But someone needs to say "don't panic you can still go cruising without 'the best' anything"...almost all of us do and are happy.
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Old 27-02-2015, 18:56   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post

You ever have anything nice to post or is your whole thing here to look for things to trash?

I would say it is to look for things to trash because just look at all the time you took to explain how you didn't like the thread that somehow I must have made you read and respond to.
Im not quite sure how you take Third days opinions as negative. Ive cruised semi full time for 6 years and my views have changed alot in that time. Real time cruising also allows you to realize who on this forum is worth listening to and who's not! Third days posts I look for ( as well as several others) as its obvious theres a combination of intelligence and experience in what he writes. We could do with more input from people like him.
Cheers Dale.
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Old 27-02-2015, 19:14   #14
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
I think this view is important in these type of "Best this or that" threads because when the planner/dreamer sees the topic, they will think oh..."there's what we need to know". Sure some of the details Sailorboy1 listed are important and hey...lets talk about them. But someone needs to say "don't panic you can still go cruising without 'the best' anything"...almost all of us do and are happy.
Exactly... As always, the answer to these sort of questions/threads is:

IT DEPENDS...

In this case, upon the particular couple, of course... Here's a sage perspective from a pair who have done more cruising/voyaging than all the wannabes attending all the seminars in Annapolis next fall will ever be likely to manage, put together... :-)

Quote:
WHAT TWO CIRCUMNAVIGATORS LEFT OFF WHEN THEY EQUIPPED THEIR DREAM BOAT

Sailing, like life, is about tradeoffs. One ofthe most basic tradeoffs has to do with when we stop working and start cruising. If we buy into the boat show hype and the “must-have, can’t leave without” equipment advertisements, for many of us the “when” will fade to an “if”—and eventually into a “might-have been.” A second basic tradeoff, as we discovered over the course of our three-year circumnavigation, has to do with how much time we spend seeing the places we sail to and how much time we spend in chandleries, boatyards, freight offices and on our stomachs in the bilge of the boat. The more comfortable and convenient a boat, the more complicated—and the more time will be spent fixing it instead of sightseeing.

http://www.bethandevans.com/pdf/Leftoff.pdf
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Old 27-02-2015, 20:38   #15
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

For me
Sun Odyssey 43 DS
Elan 45
Sun Odyssey 49

and a new bed for every day of the week, Ocean star 51.2

Very popular charter boats in the Med

can be cheap (Elan 45 for 50,000 euros SO43, 65,000)

all have a centreline bed as one model or can be readily converted
The SO 43 has convertible berths too
Plenty of storage, fuel,water capacity, good, powerful motors and will sail at 8+ knots at under 20 knots

All but SO43 DS have twin helms. Easy to get them with bow thrusters and furling main. Comfort and ease of use prevails.

There you go boys, shred that
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