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Old 02-03-2015, 02:39   #46
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

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We cruised on a 36ft boat with two kids with almost none of the comfort items…then on a 50fter with what many would view as comfort (washer/dryer, two Salons, huge freezer/fridge, and storage). What difference did it make in our Cruise Enjoyment? That’s just it…Absolutely Nothing! I’m telling you this because it’s something I hear from Cruisers all the time, but those that haven’t been cruising yet don’t think or understand: ” it ISN’T the BOAT!” I know it’s also not what people want to hear that convince themselves (and their spouse) that they HAVE to have the right boat or they won’t have a good time. Or the flip side that if we would have HAD a different boat we wouldn’t have ended our dream….BS I say.


The more I’m around this Cruising Industry Game….the more I don’t like giving this type of advice or participating in these type of “Best Boat” discussions because I think they do more harm than good to the cruisers in planning that are told they can’t do it without this, without that….on and on. For instance, I somehow managed to buy, outfit and cast off cruising without ever attending a Boat Show. I just never had the time nor desire in the days of the internet when I can research everything in piece and quiet without the “buy now for a once in a lifetime special”. Now that I go to boat shows, quite honestly, I hate them even more for the totally BS image they give cruisers in planning and dreamers. You gotta have this…you gotta have that…shit I would have never thought I could have went cruising if I would have been convinced I needed everything at the Boat Shows these days to have a fun and safe time…I would have given up in rejection and many do!


Look, I’m not trying to be an ass or a contrarian, as a business owner selling to cruisers for heaven’s sake, it doesn’t do me any good or self-promotion points to take this view. I should be right in there as a consummate YES MAN. But I can’t do it…I can’t sit here and say that what boat you go cruising on matters more than that you actually make it out cruising because I see it every damn day. A guy buys something from me and then 3yrs later the new owner of the boat calls me asking how to install or operate it. The original owner Joe has his health fail, his wife left him, his grandkids needed them to raise them, they stepped on a palm fawn and blew out their flip flop. I tell you, I have heard it all now on why they didn’t make it or why they were out for only 6 months and called it quits. And you know what…I’ve NEVER heard we didn’t like our boat! It’s always something else totally NON-Boat related…yet what are we worrying about?

I think this view is important in these type of "Best this or that" threads because when the planner/dreamer sees the topic, they will think oh..."there's what we need to know". Sure some of the details Sailorboy1 listed are important and hey...lets talk about them. But someone needs to say "don't panic you can still go cruising without 'the best' anything"...almost all of us do and are happy.
Standing ovation..applause... My hats off to all the 'well thought out planners ' out there.. but I believe that even when you spend months preparing for every potential issue,

life has a way of throwing you a "snafu".. just get what you can afford and get out there and wing it.. sure I remember some of those sunsets on the glassy bay, but what you talk about around the dinner table are the challenges that occurred and you overcame.

Good luck on your search, when I read your wish list my first thought was"this guy needs a 50 ' hull and either a 350k budget or a lot of elbow grease and more importantly..the time to build it.. "
Check sailboatlistings.com .. I love scrolling through there


Sent from my HTC6500LVW using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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Old 02-03-2015, 04:32   #47
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

spec-manship and min/maxing are the things that tie you to the dock,


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Old 02-03-2015, 10:04   #48
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

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I like it....but.....

This dual helm thing...can someone tell me what's that all about on a Cruising boat for heavens sake? Racing boat....sure....but on a cruising boat, that's just....ok I'll say it....a waste of valuable cockpit cocktail/potluck space in my humble (and maybe too irritating) opinion...
It's been beat to death here before... but I totally agree with you.
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Old 03-03-2015, 11:06   #49
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post
We cruised on a 36ft boat with two kids with almost none of the comfort items…then on a 50fter with what many would view as comfort (washer/dryer, two Salons, huge freezer/fridge, and storage). What difference did it make in our Cruise Enjoyment? That’s just it…Absolutely Nothing! I’m telling you this because it’s something I hear from Cruisers all the time, but those that haven’t been cruising yet don’t think or understand: ” it ISN’T the BOAT!” I know it’s also not what people want to hear that convince themselves (and their spouse) that they HAVE to have the right boat or they won’t have a good time. Or the flip side that if we would have HAD a different boat we wouldn’t have ended our dream….BS I say.

You went from a 36 ft to a 50 ft boat and the cruising enjoyment stayed about the same, overall.

When we upgraded from a 1980 Ericson 30+ to a 1982 Ericson 38 in 1986, our cruising got way better. Based out of San Pedro at the time, we started going to the channel islands, instead of Catalina, stayed longer everywhere we went from San Diego to San Luis Obispo, got there faster, with less helm effort. Generally our good cruising turned literally overnight into great cruising. Yes, there was a punch list with that 38, but once worked through, we were ON IT. We never quit talking about that boat.

Big changes that just made everything easier for covering ground was our first autopilot (old below deck Benmar Cetek), a roller furling jib, a cold machine (instead of ice blocks only) and a propane stove instead of alcohol. Then we added a LORAN and dodger, and went further and further. Stayed at Catalina for 3-4 weeks at a time, went to San Miguel, Santa Cruz, and just stayed out, more. It was great, in every way. There was no down side to that 38 over the 30, except the boat payment and the slip fee at Cabrillo Marina. Rode better, sailed better, and even looked better rowing up to it. But....the 38 was not complex, as it had no generator, no thruster, no radar, no windlass, and no chart plotter.
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Old 03-03-2015, 12:06   #50
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

Well you know the best boat for cruising local waters will be different from one for cruising the world. So, given the same couple, the 'perfect boat' may still vary heaps.

b.
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Old 03-03-2015, 12:54   #51
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

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Well you know the best boat for cruising local waters will be different from one for cruising the world. So, given the same couple, the 'perfect boat' may still vary heaps.

b.
I believe thread post #1 boat "works" everywhere
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Old 03-03-2015, 13:19   #52
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

I've been working on a paper describing boat features for cruising,
and basically I can sum it up in one world. Houseboat.
What is ideal for a cruising boat is a boat you live in, they call those 'houseboats'. Not a sport challenging sailing boat, not a speed thrill boat, a houseboat.

A traditional houseboat is not designed for an ocean passage.
So a cruising boat is a house boat designed for an ocean passage.

I posted my choice as of now with unlimited budget it is a NEEL 65 sans sails.
With a limited budget, it is a NEEL 65 built for $25k.

With $200k budget, this one looks like the winner:
http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/4874782211.html





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Old 03-03-2015, 14:47   #53
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

[QUOTE=SV THIRD DAY;1760980]We cruised on a 36ft boat with two kids with almost none of the comfort items…then on a 50fter with what many would view as comfort (washer/dryer, two Salons, huge freezer/fridge, and storage). What difference did it make in our Cruise Enjoyment? That’s just it…Absolutely Nothing! I’m telling you this because it’s something I hear from Cruisers all the time, but those that haven’t been cruising yet don’t think or understand: ” it ISN’T the BOAT!” I know it’s also not what people want to hear that convince themselves (and their spouse) that they HAVE to have the right boat or they won’t have a good time. Or the flip side that if we would have HAD a different boat we wouldn’t have ended our dream….BS I say.


I totally agree. It's not the vehicle, it's the journey.
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Old 03-03-2015, 15:56   #54
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

Your list of desirements sounds familiar. We had much the same when searching for a monohull under 50' to take us on our anticipated adventures. After narrowing it down to a choice of 3 we ended up with a Passport 470 CC. Interestingly, the Outbound is made in the same factory and has many of the same features. Every owner of every kind of boat we've talked to in the past 4 years overall likes their boat and has a few things they'd change if they could. We're no different and I'm confident you'll end up the same, no matter which boat you choose. Sailboat design simply has too many permutations and constraints to satisfy anyone completely. At the end of the day, after reading all the sage wisdom and philosophy, I'd have to agree that the best advice given so far is to just do it. Get out there and sail and go places and enjoy the people you meet and adventures you have. Especially get to know and enjoy the boat you've got. We love the Passport 470 and the center cockpit design. It met most of our criteria and is a very rugged, seaworthy and comfortable boat for a couple to sail and live aboard, although many people would never consider it for one reason or the other. The ability to walk thru the boat on either side of the engine compartment makes it very easy to work around each other when below decks, and while many people tried to convince me that an L-shaped galley is the only safe design, I've never had a problem keeping myself braced in the linear galley. The extra counter space it affords is a real bonus. Part of the aft queen bunk is tucked under the deck and both of us, one 5'-4" and the other 6'-3" have found that space to be an excellent sea-berth. We've sailed 2-handed offshore between Canada and the Bahamas. We've had a total of 5 people aboard for a week while in the Bahamas and surprisingly, we didn't go crazy. That said if a primary goal is enjoying the company of friends while on the water, then I'd recommend something like a Jenneau with a party cockpit, or even a catamaran. If you want to travel in the ICW, then don't get anything with a mast taller than 62' so that you don't have to hold your breath going under some of the bridges. In any case - good luck and happy sailing.
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Old 03-03-2015, 16:09   #55
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

The best sailing boat for couples:
1.) the one they can afford
2.) the one they can sail together or alone
3.) the one that they can find

Me, I'm still working on #1
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Old 03-03-2015, 16:49   #56
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

I recommend a 2000 Hunter 410. If you can't do it in that boat you can't do it!
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Old 03-03-2015, 16:53   #57
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

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I recommend a 2000 Hunter 410. If you can't do it in that boat you can't do it!
seems like an old boat
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Old 03-03-2015, 17:12   #58
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

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seems like an old boat
You are absolutely right. I'd jump up to 2001 if I were you.

Actually I've never looked at that model before but after this thread took off I thought I'd check it out. I found a lot of great reviews by owners & the interior looks very comfortable. I personally would never want anything bigger for 2 people. Would you recommend it?
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Old 03-03-2015, 17:24   #59
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

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Would you recommend it?
Probably.
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Old 03-03-2015, 18:35   #60
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Re: Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

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Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel
Well you know the best boat for cruising local waters will be different from one for cruising the world. So, given the same couple, the 'perfect boat' may still vary heaps.

b.
I believe thread post #1 boat "works" everywhere
I dunno, one of the boats you list in that post is the Hunter 45...



One of the highest priorities in my opinion on a boat intended for extended cruising, is a hefty amount of sail locker/lazarette space dedicated to the below decks storage of all the assorted gear one needs if really getting out there... I look at that 'floorplan', and see virtually the entire interior volume of the boat occupied by accommodation/living space... Where on that boat would you stow something like an asymetrical spinnaker, for instance?

I've never been aboard one of those, but like so many of today's production offerings, it appears from the brochure diagram to be ill-suited for much beyond coastal cruising and marina-hopping, with gear such as fenders having no place to live but in racks clamped to the stern rail...

Along with a whole lot of other crap, without anywhere else to put it...

:-)
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