Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 26-09-2013, 04:48   #31
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: New York, USA
Posts: 30
Re: Best America's Cup series EVER!

They said SF would not work as a venue, they were wrong.
They said AC72s cant perform, they were wrong.
They said it would not be exciting, boy they were wrong!
They said Spithill is crazy when at 8-1 he said "i'm going to win this", they were wrong.

This has been in my view the best AC in history, as well as the greatest comeback in sports! Never stop fighting till the fight is over, that's what Oracle did and they won.

Awesome regatta. Now its a matter of lowering the cost to attract more teams for the next one.
__________________

__________________
de0xyrib0se is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-09-2013, 11:33   #32
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cruising NC, FL, Bahamas, TCI & VIs
Boat: 1964 Pearson Ariel 'Faith' / Pearson 424, sv Emerald Tide
Posts: 1,531
Thumbs up Re: Best America's Cup series EVER!

The kiwis are a class act!

Full page add in the SF Chronicle from the NZ government thanking the city for being such a great host.

Very cool.... And consistent with every Kiwi I talked to... Great folks!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	83
Size:	403.2 KB
ID:	67939  
__________________

__________________
s/v 'Faith' is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-09-2013, 11:54   #33
Registered User
 
Jesse's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Oro Bay Puget Sound
Boat: Irwin sloop
Posts: 374
Re: Best America's Cup series EVER!

Oracle's change from "U" shaped foils to the "L" shape seemed to make a huge difference in boat performance. Not sure why they didn't start out with them.
__________________
Jesse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2013, 04:06   #34
Registered User
 
DumnMad's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Nelson NZ; boat in Brisbane
Boat: 45ft Ketch
Posts: 1,248
Re: Best America's Cup series EVER!

I've heard that Oracle was being directed by an aircraft technology computer powered by the grinders. Faster interpretation, readouts and decision-making. Minimised errors as well. Declared legit by the race committee.
__________________
DumnMad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2013, 05:09   #35
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Corsair Dash MKII
Posts: 4,085
Re: Best America's Cup series EVER!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy View Post
Don't you mean Go USD
(US Dollar)


There was stuff all American involvement out on the water other than what $$$$ paid for
Yep. It's great to see Aus take its second cup
__________________
Factor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2013, 05:43   #36
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Highlands, NJ 07732
Boat: Laurent Giles Salar 40
Posts: 260
Re: Best America's Cup series EVER!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
Oracle's change from "U" shaped foils to the "L" shape seemed to make a huge difference in boat performance. Not sure why they didn't start out with them.
I'm looking for a link that describes changes to Oracle's boat to explain the dramatic increase in speed. Anyone??
__________________
chris07732 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2013, 07:19   #37
Registered User
 
Julie Mor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 401
Re: Best America's Cup series EVER!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DumnMad View Post
I've heard that Oracle was being directed by an aircraft technology computer powered by the grinders. Faster interpretation, readouts and decision-making. Minimised errors as well. Declared legit by the race committee.
And that same committee declared they could not have hydraulic pumps on board and had to use manpower to pump up the hydraulics.
__________________
Julie Mor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2013, 08:35   #38
Registered User
 
Jimbo485's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: some ocean down under
Boat: Kelsall Suncat 40
Posts: 1,247
Re: Best America's Cup series EVER!

Power vs Control

There is a big difference in these two concepts.

I am no expert, but I think there might have been an issue with CONTROL. There is no issue with power, because it pretty much all comes from the grinders.

However, if the foils were controlled (not powered) by a computer, what does that mean according to the AC rules? According to a quote from colemj (Mark), all control must be manual.

Anyone have anything more specific?
__________________

Jimbo485 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2013, 08:47   #39
Registered User
 
Julie Mor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 401
Re: Best America's Cup series EVER!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo485 View Post
I am no expert, but I think there might have been an issue with CONTROL. There is no issue with power, because it pretty much all comes from the grinders.
But the average age of the crew on ETNZ was 10 years older than on OTUSA. I'll take the 30 year-olds power over the 40 year-olds.
__________________
Julie Mor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2013, 08:54   #40
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Best America's Cup series EVER!

Yes, power isn't the issue - only control of that power.

I have not found anything more than speculation yet, but am very curious. The rules seem extremely specific on computers and control - to the point of explicitly stating that any data acquisition systems, sensor and electronic controls must be physically separate and completely isolated from any electrical operation of hydraulic valves and drive clutches.

The purported system has been on Oracle since the beginning and TNZ asked for a ruling in the beginning. The rules committee accepted Oracle's system as legal. Oracle claims that their boat was remeasured before every race and obtained clean certificates. This doesn't seem like a lie, because it is public that it was so.

Oracle originally gave up on using the system because they could never get it to work. They seemed to go on a crash program to get it working when TNZ was demonstrably faster in the earlier races - particularly upwind.

The one thing that has come out is that Oracle bet BIG on weather. They made a lot of changes to the boat that required heavier winds to work. Even the control system is speculated to have used smaller foils and require foiling upwind at specific speeds to get better VMG. Any lesser wind, or flukier wind, would bring them off their foils and they would lose by a large margin.

You could see this on the upwind leg, where Oracle was foiling at larger angles than TNZ and the VMG was pretty much even until boat speed hit ~28kts. It was only then that Oracle started to walk TNZ upwind at their larger angles.

Perhaps TNZ's largest mistake of the whole series was not pulling their lay-day card and waiting for the next day's light winds.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2013, 09:29   #41
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,971
Re: Best America's Cup series EVER!

While it may not technically be cheating, it certainly has bad optics that Oracle was down 8-1, installs this piece of aircraft technology to control the foils, and PRESTO! then wins the next 8 races.

It also points out how these things really are closer to planes than boats. The equipment they installed (evidently sometimes called on planes a "Little Herbie") was invented by Boeing to control yaw. On planes it will help get out of a "Dutch Roll".

Perhaps the Dutch members of this board could explain the term

And - just in case - here's how to get out of a Dutch Roll.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Du..._Technique.jpg
__________________
CarlF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2013, 09:50   #42
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Best America's Cup series EVER!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
It also points out how these things really are closer to planes than boats. The equipment they installed (evidently sometimes called on planes a "Little Herbie") was invented by Boeing to control yaw. On planes it will help get out of a "Dutch Roll".
Not anymore than it makes the newest planes using advanced composites closer to boats than planes. Or boats using GPS closer to battle tanks and cruise missiles than boats.

I am having a difficult time equating the use of a system with a type of craft.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2013, 10:18   #43
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sailing the Caribbean
Boat: Switch 51
Posts: 1,498
Re: Best America's Cup series EVER!

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
The purported system has been on Oracle since the beginning and TNZ asked for a ruling in the beginning. The rules committee accepted Oracle's system as legal.
This is not exactly as I have read. I read that ETNZ asked for a ruling but it was denied as being submitted too late. But the jury purportedly said they would have found it legal if timely submitted anyway.
__________________
SVNeko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2013, 10:36   #44
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: SF Bay
Posts: 130
Re: Best America's Cup series EVER!

After finally conceding that their boat was not competitive, USA took a time out to tweak things in order to get back in it. Why, after it was clear beyond any doubt that the USA boat had become vastly superior, did NZ not do the same thing? Did anyone have any doubt that USA would power by NZ on the upwind leg in the last race after having done exactly that the previous day? The boats were essentially in different classes going upwind. I felt zero excitement about the final race because the result was clearly a foregone conclusion.
__________________
sardinebreath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2013, 11:14   #45
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Best America's Cup series EVER!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVNeko View Post
This is not exactly as I have read. I read that ETNZ asked for a ruling but it was denied as being submitted too late. But the jury purportedly said they would have found it legal if timely submitted anyway.
Yes, that is exactly the way I should have stated it. In the meantime, the boat was remeasured every race day, so any issues should have come up during those.

Mark
__________________

__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:56.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.