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Old 12-12-2011, 15:42   #1
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Bad People Do Bad Things

I have a big problem before me. I will be very vague as far as details about the boat in question as well as my location for reasons that will be evident as you read this posting.
I had an agreement with a man to buy a vessel who presented himself as a P.O.A. for a failing gentleman (actual owner). Rather than act according to the law this person has destroyed the deceased's boat, robbing it of anything of value ( perkins 50 hp. , trans, winches,windlass, he even cut the turn buckles off the rigging,) I could go on and on. All this has been done with out the family even being notified of his passing. This man has destroyed this once very nice boat which I was willing to pay far more than the market value of the hiested equipment. Not understanding why this reckless and malicious charachter would do something so morally and leagally wrong I can only come to the conclusion that if he were to sell me the boat he would be required to turn the funds over to the estate where as if he sells the items he can put the money in his pocket and tell the true heirs that old boat was picked apart over the years and is not worth doing anything with. I have photos of the boat before and after these dirty deads have been done. The unsavory charachter has no Idea that I know any of this as well as spoken to the true heirs in another country. Compounding this scinario is what I must refer to as the most incompitent individuals known to man....Law Enforcement officers, who see nothing wrong with the actions and are of the position that if any wrong doing has occured that it is a civil matter and I had no right to ask for any investigating into the matter without written legal documentation from the survivors. My reply was, if my neighbors house was being robbed would I need to have that documentation to report it?
I still would like to buy the boat if all equipment comes with it. you all can catch my drift, or get the state attourney's office involved and deal dirctly with the surviving family
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Old 12-12-2011, 15:48   #2
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Re: Bad people do bad things

Unless you can demonstrate a theft, it is a civil matter. Why not simply tell the estate trustee or Executor?
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Old 12-12-2011, 15:52   #3
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Re: Bad people do bad things

Quote:
Originally Posted by moto View Post

I still would like to buy the boat if all
equipment comes with it.
That boat has sailed, so to speak. If you want to be a good sam you might be able to help the family recoup some of the proceeds or materials, but if they are out of country then unless this boat was a really notable vessel with a really high dollar value they will prolly not be willing to make the effort. Law of diminishing returns in all likelihood.

That they live out of country and didn't have close enough connection to the (now deceased, if I am understanding correctly)owner to be appraised of his passing then I am guessing that the connection is pretty tenuous.

I'd walk away myself and figure that the karmic wheels may grind slowly, but they surely do grind.
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Old 12-12-2011, 16:04   #4
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Re: Bad people do bad things

I have seen similar circumstances and unless you are really willing to get into it up to your neck (the morally correct thing to do) you need to consider what it will cost you personally in money, time and aggravation/stress. Maybe what might influence your decision would be the surviving family and what their lives are like and how they react and are interested in pursuing truth and justice. I have seen circumstances where the boat owner has died and the distant "family" has not idea of what a sailing yacht is and have no interest in it since it did not cost them anything. Such situations are really excellent opportunities to get a decent boat for pennies on the dollar.

- - Law enforcement officials are really reticent to get involved if the owners are not actively forcing the issue. Burglaries and other home invasion thefts, etc. are almost never followed up by law enforcement officials beyond filling out a police report for your insurance company. There are too many and too little chance of actually convicting the crook and even less chance of the guilty party doing any prison time.

- - So that leaves it squarely on your shoulders and soul as to how much you get involved.
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Old 12-12-2011, 16:27   #5
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Re: Bad people do bad things

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Originally Posted by S/V Illusion View Post
Unless you can demonstrate a theft, it is a civil matter. Why not simply tell the estate trustee or Executor?
I think what he's saying is that the "bad person" IS the estate trustee or executor.
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Old 12-12-2011, 16:35   #6
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Re: Bad people do bad things

A POA dies with the person.
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Old 12-12-2011, 16:37   #7
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Re: Bad people do bad things

This realy sucks. You must decide if you want the troubble this boat brings. If the owner has pass on then the POA is no longer in effect and this person has no legal right to remove any thing else or sell the boat. Only the executors of the estate or their agents can dispose of any property.
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Old 12-12-2011, 16:45   #8
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Re: Bad people do bad things

It's buyers market out there right now. Just go find another boat! Life is too short to worry about someone else's boat.
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Old 12-12-2011, 16:48   #9
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Re: Bad people do bad things

The 'bad' POA bearer was obviously a trusted agent of the deceased.

The only way you can act in this situation is if you remove yourself as a potential buyer, otherwise it looks to the family as though you are just trying to gain the best position to buy.

IMHO, you ought to drop a dime on the bad guy and then walk away. Trust that the right deal will come along, but if you try to work something out you will likely come out as the bad guy.
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Old 12-12-2011, 16:57   #10
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Re: Bad people do bad things

There are alot of scum bags out there. I'm sort of dealing with a somewhat similar situation right now. A long time customer and friend recently drowned. His Catana is now a sitting target for opportunist criminals wearing boat shoes and ties. The boat is here in S. Fla. and the family lives in Europe. As a favor to his family I've had to go by the boat and take as much inventory as possible. It seems several expensive items have already grown legs now that there is an extra set of keys. I particularly hate thieves and find them disgusting in the first order. There have been a few threads here over the years asking if people in the marine industry have a grapevine of sorts to pass on information about bad customers. It does exisit. There is also a grapevine in the marine industry about certain brokers to best steer clear of. Ask around the yards before you settle on the first broker you meet. You might get an earfull you did not expect.
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Old 12-12-2011, 17:06   #11
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Re: Bad people do bad things

This is a simple moral philosophy question.

If you know who are the heirs to the estate; inform them of your understanding of the circumstances especially the intermediary’s actions. Also state your interest in making an offer if the stolen/misappropriated parts are included in the package. If you do not know whom the heirs or their probate trustee are… walk away. As others have stated there are always other opportunities.

Regards

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Old 12-12-2011, 17:13   #12
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Re: Bad people do bad things

Walk away. there are many fish(boats) in the sea(for sale). No good deed goes unpunished. Karma will take care of the rest.
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Old 12-12-2011, 17:25   #13
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Re: Bad people do bad things

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v 'Faith' View Post
The 'bad' POA bearer was obviously a trusted agent of the deceased.

The only way you can act in this situation is if you remove yourself as a potential buyer, otherwise it looks to the family as though you are just trying to gain the best position to buy.

IMHO, you ought to drop a dime on the bad guy and then walk away. Trust that the right deal will come along, but if you try to work something out you will likely come out as the bad guy.
Thank You to all. The POA Claims to be the executor, There is family surviving that I am sure don't really want to deal with it, although they may authorize me to do so and them being the rightfull heirs would stand to gain from me buying the COMPLETE vessel. From my position I feel I have a lot of leverage and influence with the knowledge I have of the wrong doing on his part, Photos etc. It would be in his best interest to sell me the boat with all that was on it when we discussed the deal. The flip side will be most uncomfortible as well as costly for him. The value of the boat is in the neighborhood of 60,000 with a firesale price/ value of 30-35K
As far as me expending any efforts and or dollars my biggest hurdle is the get the attention of the states attorney's office ( asst. states attorney are fresh out of law school eager to make a name for them selves)
I really did want this boat and shame on me for not persueing it long ago....It's one of those things that pop into your mind for a reason....the boat has been on the hard for aprox. 10 years I can't help feeling that if I had the man may be still alive......understand he was a destitute almost homeless man that had 1 assett and no money to even move it ( The boat is away from the water requiring a crane and specialized equipment to move)
My delemma is do I hit the the POS/ POA with both barrels or urge the state attorney to persue the criminal aspect and deal with the remaining family members....nieces and nephews
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Old 12-12-2011, 17:37   #14
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Re: Bad people do bad things

personally I don't see this as a boating issue and feel debating it here is improper as such

what possible advise are we here at CF going to be able bring
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Old 12-12-2011, 17:50   #15
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Re: Bad people do bad things

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Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
personally I don't see this as a boating issue and feel debating it here is improper as such

what possible advise are we here at CF going to be able bring
Broader your thinking. this is not a debate. I am asking for advice. There seem to be a lot of members familiar with this type scenario
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