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rebel heart · 12-12-2011, 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by delmarrey

It's buyers market out there right now. Just go find another boat! Life is too short to worry about someone else's boat.

.

Fully agreed. It's not like this is the only injustice in the world today and if you want to sit around and discuss morality ask yourself why you're dealing with yachts in the first place when you could be saving dying children in foreign lands by devoting your life to that cause. Would certainly be the "moral" thing to do.

So since we can mark morality as being completely subjective I think you need to let this particular wrong go unchallenged. It's corrupt and low-life to do what the guy did, no denying that. But it's simply not worth the energy. Like I said above, if you're going to spend a ton of time to right some wrong at least go pick one that has a bit more resonance to human kind.

JayCall · 12-12-2011, 23:31

As an attorney, I could offer some suggestions, although not legal advice as I am not admitted to practice wherever you are. However, there are several courses of action depending on how involved you want to become.

1. Find a decent estate attorney, you can usually get an initial meeting at no cost.
2. Talk to him about asking the heirs to appoint you as attorney-in-fact for them in your jurisdiction. You can explain to them that the boat represents $$ to them as heirs. That generally gets heirs' attention. This will allow you to at on their behalf including pressuring the police to take action. Only they, or you as their rep can push the police to act.
3. An attorney will advise you on the estate laws where you are, but generally estates have to be probated in one form or another. If there is a will, all actions taken have to be in accordance with that will. If there is no will, state law will govern treatment of the estate assets.

An executor is not allowed to act as he pleases and he certainly is not allowed to appropriate assets of the estate for his own purposes.

As I said, it all depends on how involved you want to be, but if you do want to be involved, do it quickly while there are still assets, and the thief, to be found. Call the local Bar and ask for references to estate attorneys.

SaucySailoress · 13-12-2011, 00:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by moto

His heirs don't even know what happened to his body.

So the family obviously really cared then, and showed it by paying attention at the time of his death. I wonder if this POA was the only guy in the deceased's life who cared. I wonder if he knows where the body is? I wonder how much he did to help the deceased when he was alive and suffering, since his family were overseas not even worrying about where he would receive treatment and die. You said the deceased was in a dire financial situation? Who helped the guy get to Canada? Bet it was more likely the POA than the family.

Oh dear - I was in such a good mood until I read about this poor old man with a marvelous boat, but no family to care, and no way of financing his healthcare except selling his dearest boat at half price to an opportunist taking advantage of an economy that was already killing him...

Sorry you lost a great boat... but move on. There are others.

moto · 13-12-2011, 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous7500

If you really cared about the surviving family: $60K.

WOW THAT MUCH, I BETTER MAKE A DEAL
Look around, turn keys are out there for 40K

**Pete7** · 13-12-2011, 03:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaucySailoress

Sorry you lost a great boat... but move on. There are others.

Absolutely, a 1984 Jeanneau which has been sat on the hard for 10 years, then stripped of anything of value. Forget it, it will cost far more than buying a boat ready to go and you won't have the problem of probate which can drag on for years.

Open internet browser, search for yachworld, and move on.

Pete

sailorboy1 · 13-12-2011, 03:38

I don't know why the OP is asking for opinions, seems he dismisses all of the ones made.

psneeld · 13-12-2011, 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

I don't know why the OP is asking for opinions, seems he dismisses all of the ones made.

And his responses have generally been wrong starting with what the police should do to what's required for the boat to exchange hands. Lets see what he says to the lawyer that just offered free legal suggestions

Its his first postings....and sounds like a familiar internet tune which was addressed a few posts back.

moto · 13-12-2011, 05:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaucySailoress

So the family obviously really cared then, and showed it by paying attention at the time of his death. I wonder if this POA was the only guy in the deceased's life who cared. I wonder if he knows where the body is? I wonder how much he did to help the deceased when he was alive and suffering, since his family were overseas not even worrying about where he would receive treatment and die. You said the deceased was in a dire financial situation? Who helped the guy get to Canada? Bet it was more likely the POA than the family.

Oh dear - I was in such a good mood until I read about this poor old man with a marvelous boat, but no family to care, and no way of financing his healthcare except selling his dearest boat at half price to an opportunist taking advantage of an economy that was already killing him...

Sorry you lost a great boat... but move on. There are others.

The gentlman ended up here in this area somehow. According to his ex wife he was a serious alchoholic that left turmoil and dissapointment in his wake. I do believe they did and do care, he just fell off the radar.He had no phone and stopped comunicating with his ex wife via emal about 6 years ago (from library). As far as the POA, he was most likely the only one that seamed to care. I am sure he was the man that got him back to Canada and I do know he provided him with the old travle trailer to live in rather than climbing up in his boat. So I am sure he has some connection to the assetts of the estate. Previous to his death I was told that they can't do anything with the boat until he dies so it was not sighned over to him prior to him passing
As POA part of his duties are to notify Family members, I found them rather quickly. Also he is responsible for protecting the assetts. It can be argued either way but the boat is an attachable, traceable assett, components there of are not. In addition he had me as a buyer for far more than scrap value of the vessels components.
If he has any legal rights to sell off the boat any way he feels then why would he ( never mentioned previously but POA is in the marine service industry)part it out in such a careless and reckless way. For example when you cut a turnbuckle off half of it is no good and the rest of the rigging is comprised for this vessel anyway. If you are acting in a legal manner than you would unscrew the turn buckles, remove the shrouts and be able to market them properly as complete.
I slept on things last night, if the family wishes to designate me as thier agent great, if not, oh well, I will walk. As a previous reply stated the wheels of Karma turn slowly but they do turn, and this man has a whole truck load comming his way

David_Old_Jersey · 13-12-2011, 05:50

The POA probably simply got tired of dealing with you.........

.....and decided the best value would be obtained by removing items of value that could be sold seperately (especially if cash was needed). Whether that was what you beleive to be the right decision is immaterial (and in this case simply a matter of opinion) - A POA is allowed to make less than ideal decisions, as long as they can be justified.

To be honest - you just sound like someone who gets a kick out of involving yourself in other people's business, and have deluded yourself into thinking you have some chips in the game / power over the POA (some folk don't cope well with being "important").

Besides, I doubt you have all the facts let alone the whole story - just enough to feed you.

moto · 13-12-2011, 06:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayCall

As an attorney, I could offer some suggestions, although not legal advice as I am not admitted to practice wherever you are. However, there are several courses of action depending on how involved you want to become.

1. Find a decent estate attorney, you can usually get an initial meeting at no cost.
2. Talk to him about asking the heirs to appoint you as attorney-in-fact for them in your jurisdiction. You can explain to them that the boat represents $$ to them as heirs. That generally gets heirs' attention. This will allow you to at on their behalf including pressuring the police to take action. Only they, or you as their rep can push the police to act.
3. An attorney will advise you on the estate laws where you are, but generally estates have to be probated in one form or another. If there is a will, all actions taken have to be in accordance with that will. If there is no will, state law will govern treatment of the estate assets.

An executor is not allowed to act as he pleases and he certainly is not allowed to appropriate assets of the estate for his own purposes.

As I said, it all depends on how involved you want to be, but if you do want to be involved, do it quickly while there are still assets, and the thief, to be found. Call the local Bar and ask for references to estate attorneys.

Thank you for your advice. #2 is spot on and pretty much what I have been asking advice on as one option. (other option being having my ducks in a row when we sit down to for the sale) A lot of people on this post react to what being written as replies and not reading and understanding the whole scinario , Such as stating that the police have no obligation to get involved. Wrong. Anybody can report crime and vandalism. Thank You again,You have been a great help and seam to be one of the only ones who can actually follow what is being said, and have some common sence.

moto · 13-12-2011, 06:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

The POA probably simply got tired of dealing with you.........

.....and decided the best value would be obtained by removing items of value that could be sold seperately (especially if cash was needed). Whether that was what you beleive to be the right decision is immaterial (and in this case simply a matter of opinion) - A POA is allowed to make less than ideal decisions, as long as they can be justified.

To be honest - you just sound like someone who gets a kick out of involving yourself in other people's business, and have deluded yourself into thinking you have some chips in the game / power over the POA (some folk don't cope well with being "important").

Besides, I doubt you have all the facts let alone the whole story - just enough to feed you.

thank you for the psycho analysis. What do I owe you?

David_Old_Jersey · 13-12-2011, 06:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by moto

thank you for the psycho analysis. What do I owe you?

Whatever

maytrix · 13-12-2011, 10:41

The question I have at this point is what are you hoping to get out of this?

The boat you wanted doesn't exist anymore. You just aren't going to get back the items that were removed. Whether the POA was right or not doesn't matter, the stuff is gone and isn't going to be replaced.

So if you are hoping to still get the boat at the end of this in the way it was originally presented to you, then you need to walk away.

If your goal at this point is to buy it for what its now worth without the stuff that's been removed or to help the family even if you may not buy it, then continue. However you do that, a lawyer is likely going to need to be involved as is the family.

moto · 13-12-2011, 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by maytrix

The question I have at this point is what are you hoping to get out of this?

The boat you wanted doesn't exist anymore. You just aren't going to get back the items that were removed. Whether the POA was right or not doesn't matter, the stuff is gone and isn't going to be replaced.

So if you are hoping to still get the boat at the end of this in the way it was originally presented to you, then you need to walk away.

If your goal at this point is to buy it for what its now worth without the stuff that's been removed or to help the family even if you may not buy it, then continue. However you do that, a lawyer is likely going to need to be involved as is the family.

At this point helping the family. On the outside chance that her Lawyer ( just spoke to the remaingng family members)can scare the bejesus out of him and he forks over the goods in exchange for no action against him, I most likely will buy. I'm not holding my breath though.