Bad People Do Bad Things

[moto]

Originally Posted by Sailagain

That may be true. But there is nothing you can do about it.

You can just pick a better POA than the dead guy did. So let this be a lesson to everyone. Pick a good POA - if you don't they will loot your boat.

OK?

No matter if I buy or not this man should pay for his actions. What he did was legally and morally wrong. Taking a viable assett and reducing it to trash is against my beliefs. I can lay my head on the pillow at night knowing that I contacted his remaining Family as well as secured some of his memories for them...Photos of him in his prime and his boat.....a Jeanneau 40 sunn fizz. I only hope his heirs wish to persue or have me on their behalf

[Sailagain]

Originally Posted by moto

No matter if I buy or not this man should pay for his actions. What he did was legally and morally wrong. Taking a viable assett and reducing it to trash is against my beliefs. I can lay my head on the pillow at night knowing that I contacted his remaining Family as well as secured some of his memories for them...Photos of him in his prime and his boat.....a Jeanneau 40 sunn fizz. I only hope his heirs wish to persue or have me on their behalf

I totally understand what you are saying. But the legal facts might not support any action what so ever

Even durable POAs actions may have no right to be questioned even by family members. Obviously - something is amiss in family relations of the dead guy didn't designate a family member to see after his affairs. Right?

And the other poster is totally correct POAs have a right to compensation for their time and actions - so if they sold a radar/ GPS to pay for their time in settling the estate - paying bills - arranging the funeral - ETC. Anyhow. You get the point. Hopefully

[callmecrazy]

The state attorney doesn't want to hear from anyone except the owner of the property. Same with the cops (and they will actually pursue an investigation, despite what has been said. Albeit, chances are slim of any recovery or conviction)

So, let the heirs know whats happening. If they choose to pursue the matter, that's up to them...

Either walk from the buy, or make a deal based on the absence of gear. Your 'appearance' to the heirs is negligible. If they look into the matter, they will see. If they don't, then your appearance is moot anyway, since they obviously don't care about the boat (or the price/condition).

If the heirs are so unreachable as to not even know the fellow passed, they may practically give the boat away. I mean, what do they care? they may not give 2 shts about the condition, or the price.... could be a good deal

[moto]

Originally Posted by Sailagain

I totally understand what you are saying. But the legal facts might not support any action what so ever

Even durable POAs actions may have no right to be questioned even by family members. Obviously - something is amiss in family relations of the dead guy didn't designate a family member to see after his affairs. Right?

And the other poster is totally correct POAs have a right to compensation for their time and actions - so if they sold a radar/ GPS to pay for their time in settling the estate - paying bills - arranging the funeral - ETC. Anyhow. You get the point. Hopefully

I undrstand about the POA bing compensated , Bottom line is the POA has a legal responsability to the heirs to PROTECT the deceased's property Real or Personal. The man was sent back to Canada for treatment. Remember his financial situation. and the influence an unsavory character can have over somebody in his possision. His heirs don't even know what happened to his body.There is a big difference in "lifting" a few Pieces and totally scrapping a boat down to cutting a 25 year old elec. panel. They stiffed the man whos property the boat sits on, and will mosy likely abandon it there leaving it up to the property owner to deal with the mess. At that point what can he do? nothing without spending a few grand in federal court to get ownership just to dispose of it

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by moto

Broader your thinking. this is not a debate. I am asking for advice. There seem to be a lot of members familiar with this type scenario

You dont have a leg to stand on if you have no paperwork showing you have interest in the boat..its like you go to the police and say that you saw someone steal your friends cat but your friend dosnt give a hoot about the cat..you cant press the issue only your friend can...

[moto]

Originally Posted by callmecrazy

The state attorney doesn't want to hear from anyone except the owner of the property. Same with the cops (and they will actually pursue an investigation, despite what has been said. Albeit, chances are slim of any recovery or conviction)

So, let the heirs know whats happening. If they choose to pursue the matter, that's up to them...

Either walk from the buy, or make a deal based on the absence of gear. Your 'appearance' to the heirs is negligible. If they look into the matter, they will see. If they don't, then your appearance is moot anyway, since they obviously don't care about the boat (or the price/condition).

If the heirs are so unreachable as to not even know the fellow passed, they may practically give the boat away. I mean, what do they care? they may not give 2 shts about the condition, or the price.... could be a good deal

what is an 84 jeanneau 40 sunn fizz. hull and stick w/ cut rigging worth. That's all that's left

[Sailagain]

You are really going off the deep end here and after this post I am Unsubscribing to this thread.

Since you HAVE NOT seen the will - how do you even know there are any heirs? If the dead guy didn't choose a family member as POA he might NOT have left anything to the family.

Maybe he hated all his family. Maybe they hated that he was a sailor and spent money that they wanted for other things on his boat.

You are really making a lot of crazy assumptions.

Good luck. And goodbye.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by moto

I undrstand about the POA bing compensated , Bottom line is the POA has a legal responsability to the heirs to PROTECT the deceased's property Real or Personal. The man was sent back to Canada for treatment. Remember his financial situation. and the influence an unsavory character can have over somebody in his possision. His heirs don't even know what happened to his body.There is a big difference in "lifting" a few Pieces and totally scrapping a boat down to cutting a 25 year old elec. panel. They stiffed the man whos property the boat sits on, and will mosy likely abandon it there leaving it up to the property owner to deal with the mess. At that point what can he do? nothing without spending a few grand in federal court to get ownership just to dispose of it

Not sure where you are but in many states "abandoned property" can be had in a local court by filing a simple motion for a few dollars to the court (less than $100 where I am).

Your whole story is about how upset you are at the POA...disparaging not only him but also local LE, plus misstating or wrongly thinking what should or how things are going to happen. Time for a reality check...

The best advice so far is to make an offer as is with a contingency of going higher if the gear is replaced either with original or suitable replacement gear. If you don't get it...send a letter to the family if you can explaining what happened (until you get this far...you may not have the whole story anyhow). Then walk away because you have a snowballs chance in hell of getting any satisfaction ...have seen situations like this many times...at a marina now that has been selling off numerous abandoned boats in all states of condition and owners deceased, etc.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by Sailagain

You are really going off the deep end here and after this post I am Unsubscribing to this thread.

Since you HAVE NOT seen the will - how do you even know there are any heirs? If the dead guy didn't choose a family member as POA he might NOT have left anything to the family.

Maybe he hated all his family. Maybe they hated that he was a sailor and spent money that they wanted for other things on his boat.

You are really making a lot of crazy assumptions.

Good luck. And goodbye.

Beat me to it and said it with a little less sugar...

[callmecrazy]

Originally Posted by moto

what is an 84 jeanneau 40 sunn fizz. hull and stick w/ cut rigging worth. That's all that's left

Is the stick still standing?

Rigging is less than $3k (if you DIY), the boat is probably still worth a fair price. Not many of them in poor condition to compare prices with...

It's worth however much you're willing to pay for it. Period.

If the heirs ask for more than you're willing to spend, then it doesn't matter.

Find out what they want for it, then compare that to your other options.

It's a buyers market, but sunn fizz's are scarce in the US at a decent price, if that's the boat you want, its up to you to decide its value. Not the owners. If they value it higher than you do, it's not the boat for you

[moto]

[QUOTE=psneeld;837194]Not sure where you are but in many states "abandoned property" can be had in a local court by filing a simple motion for a few dollars to the court (less than $100 where I am).

Your whole story is about how upset you are at the POA...disparaging not only him but also local LE, plus misstating or wrongly thinking what should or how things are going to happen. Time for a reality check...

The best advice so far is to make an offer as is with a contingency of going higher if the gear is replaced either with original or suitable replacement gear. If you don't get it...send a letter to the family if you can explaining what happened (until you get this far...you may not have the whole story anyhow). Then walk away because you have a snowballs chance in hell of getting any satisfaction ...have seen situations like this many times...at a marina now that has been selling off numerous


abandoned boats in all states of condition and owners deceased,

Documented vessels fall under a whole different set of rules. Legally marina owners must have ownership to be able to sell them. State titled are easy. Documented must go through Federal Court

[moto]

Originally Posted by callmecrazy

Is the stick still standing?

Rigging is less than $3k (if you DIY), the boat is probably still worth a fair price. Not many of them in poor condition to compare prices with...

It's worth however much you're willing to pay for it. Period.

If the heirs ask for more than you're willing to spend, then it doesn't matter.

Find out what they want for it, then compare that to your other options.

It's a buyers market, but sunn fizz's are scarce in the US at a decent price, if that's the boat you want, its up to you to decide its value. Not the owners. If they value it higher than you do, it's not the boat for you

sticks on the ground.....boat needs everything and it is a buyers market

[Anonymous7500]

Originally Posted by moto

what is an 84 jeanneau 40 sunn fizz. hull and stick w/ cut rigging worth. That's all that's left

If you really cared about the surviving family: $60K.

[maytrix]

I agree with the others saying there isn't much you can do.

You've really done all you can and as others have pointed out don't know the details of the owners will. Perhaps the boat was left to the POA?

So all you can really do is inform the surviving family members of the situation, ask if there's anything you can do to help them or if they have any preference as to whether you buy the boat or not.

And if you decide to buy the boat, pay what its worth with the lack of rigging. Simple as that.

It seems you are really hoping for a different response from the community here, but I think the rest of us would walk away at this point. If the family was more involved, they'd know more about what was going on. So they are to blame in this as well.

Best move is to walk away.

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by moto

. . . Documented vessels fall under a whole different set of rules. Legally marina owners must have ownership to be able to sell them. State titled are easy. Documented must go through Federal Court

Not true - the problem with a deceased owner is probating the will - if there is one, or dealing with a court in an "intestate" situation. Before anybody can sell or buy the boat a new legal owner has to be declared by a court. After that is accomplished then purchasing is as simple with a State registered/titled boat as a USCG boat. Just different fees involved.
- - It is likely that the family would rather just not have to deal with any of the complications of probating the dead guy or dealing with the complications of "intestate." So the boat will just rot away and/or mystically eventually end up in a dumpster. Almost every boatyard with any age has several such boats back in their corners.