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Old 13-04-2011, 12:49   #16
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Re: BA Thesis Ecoyacht

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Originally Posted by munkey906 View Post
Maybe it's too obvious to note, but isn't the best way to make a 50' yacht more environmentally friendly to chop it down to say a 32' boat?

or....

refurbish and recondition older yachts... there is a ton of energy, toxicity and freshwater being used to build a new boat... save that cost by simply taking older boats and making them new.

I'd definitely go for a very nicely redone older yacht...bet they're far cheaper too...
Yes. a smaller boat may be green, all other things equal.

Restoring / recycling could also be a good idea - along the lines that NOT building an ECO something is more ECO than building one.

I would think that maybe building the Asian way would be the way to go - remember reading about a French girl who built a boat from natural materials there - a small one, but maybe some of her ideas could be scaled up?

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Old 13-04-2011, 14:02   #17
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Re: BA Thesis Ecoyacht

I think the wing sail idea was done 25 years ago. Walker? Never took off commercially.

I always liked the unstayed (carbon fibre) masts of the Freedom yachts from the 1970's.



But that could be because they also looked a bit Piratey For anything commercial (in that size / price bracket) will need all mod cons. and the power to run them. and to look bling enough to look "good" in a Marina (where it will be living most of the time).

Folks like being ecoists better when sipping cold drinks in a Jacuzzi........

But, in the spirit of these things I would build a ginourmous Trimaran - they look sexier than a Cat ) with a totally flat deck (big cost savings on build time and fitting out). Something 65 foot+ with a f#ck off sized bow sprit Maybe unstayed mast(s) ala Freedom.

The hulls would conceal storage, and maybe some pop up pods for things like Sink, Fridge. and toilet Could even include an underdeck built in Jacuzzi Obviously will need sleeping / dining accomadation - for that I would use canvas to create modular / flexible accomadation plans, including a wheelhouse. Think beyond backpacker tents to a Yurt! and if BMW etc can produce fabric roofs that survive 150 Mph in all weathers, then no reason why cannot have similar on board a yacht.

Obviously setting up "camp" for the night may be a PITA - but on something that size having crew (or a Skipper) would not be unusual (and normal for Charter). Plus depending on design, some of the "tents" could be left erected on passage. If you have struggled to acheive an erection it's always a shame to put it away........
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Old 13-04-2011, 14:32   #18
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Re: BA Thesis Ecoyacht

Lets make a concept boat out of crap, we can power it with methane. Oops, sorry that idea stinks...Red
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Old 13-04-2011, 19:57   #19
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Re: BA Thesis Ecoyacht

The wing sail isn't realistic currently, but the dynarig might be.

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Old 13-04-2011, 20:21   #20
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Re: BA Thesis Ecoyacht

these dhows are pretty eco friendly
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Old 13-04-2011, 20:22   #21
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Re: BA Thesis Ecoyacht

Smaller is almost always more green but I understand that a big boat makes for a more interesting college project.

The wing sail doesn't stand up to much skepticism. You're not building a racing boat where 100ths of a knot matter. Conventional sails can drive this boat as fast as the crew would want to go (e.g. 10-12 knots if a 50 ft cat). Faster than that at sea and it gets pretty bumpy, wet and tiring.

Your 50ft boat (especially if it's in a charter business) will need a lot of electricity. Guests are going to expect long fresh water showers from desalination, ice cubes for their rum drinks, etc. - Green generation of "hotel" electricity is probably a bigger issue than green propulsion.

You're planning solar panels but be sure your design doesn't have the solar panels shaded by the mast or rig. Also, figure out a way in the design to have the panels track the sun.

I'd also look at wind and water electricity generation. There are some really interesting new wind generators that might work on a yacht (someday). I saw one company at MIT that was going to fly doughnut shaped balloons like kites with the blades spinning in the middle of the doughnuts. Wind speeds are much greater up high. I'm not sure this is very practical (or would even work) but it would look cool in a drawing.

Water power generators are even more interesting underway since sailboats often have excess sail energy in a strong wind. Once a boat get's close to hull speed (which should happen by about 15 knots of apparent wind in a well designed boat) a lot of energy starts being thrown away making a wake or sail area is reduced. Nigel Calder is experimenting with getting power from a spinning propeller. He told me at a boat show that he was expecting several kilowatts of power. I also remember seeing some nifty drawings from someone else of a sail drive propulsion unit with a folding prop. When you were sailing you could swivel the sail drive unit 180 degrees so the prop faced forward. The water pressure would unfold the prop and it would drive an alternator for electricity. Sorry, can't remember the name of the company.

Carl
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Old 13-04-2011, 21:11   #22
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Re: BA Thesis Ecoyacht

I'm watching with interest as I like the ideal of being as independant as possible of shore side systems.

Already it's possible to
1) collect rainwater
2) install a composting dunny
3) generate enough electricity to run a modest cruising boat
4) sail around without an engine
But there is one problem I can't resolve

cooking - can you generate enough power to be self sufficient? Filling propane tanks means you are going ashore and spending money on fuel
And what about food production - hydroponics?
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Old 14-04-2011, 03:57   #23
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Re: BA Thesis Ecoyacht

Wow a lots of interesting stuff and critics going on here.
Here is a little update so far:

The yacht will be a charter yacht for 6 persons. The aspect of sharing is more reasonable, and a high building cost doesn't weight that high with a charter yacht.
-therefore it will be a catamaran, since there is a lot more space
- right now we think a lot about the energy problem: a solution seems to be a fuel cell; it has a far higher energy density than batteries or fuel, and is completely without emissions. A fuel cell (in combination with solar panels) could obtain enough energy for a 1-2 week turn. The hydrogen needed could be carried in pressure tanks or bounded in a special granulate (which is safer).
even issues like the cooking gas could be solved with hydrogen.
- an idea was to create the hydrogen needed at the charter base; at the marina could be a device which gets hydrogen through electrolyse (you only need salt water, 2 electrodes and electrical power for it). the power could come from wind generators or from water or wind powerplants near the marina.
- we still stick to the wing sails, and therefore are in contact with two engineers. One from Boeing who helped creating one of the Alinghi Americas Cup yachts, and the other from the HSVA, a German institute for hydro and aerodynamic research.

And please keep in mind that this is more a feasibility study, which wants to show that there is another way to build luxury yachts.

-akashara
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Old 14-04-2011, 04:04   #24
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Re: BA Thesis Ecoyacht

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Originally Posted by akashara View Post
a high building cost doesn't weight that high with a charter yacht.
ROTFLMAO

I guess you ain't ever run a business..........


Quote:
And please keep in mind that this is more a feasibility study, which wants to show that there is another way to build luxury yachts.
Badly? Already been done

But good luck anyway
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Old 14-04-2011, 05:01   #25
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pirate Re: BA Thesis Ecoyacht

Take a look at the James Wharram Designs...
He's gone where your trying to follow with reasonable success...
A guy who owned a 50ft Tehini used to scull in and out of harbours etc... being a seaman he harnessed the favourable tides and currents to help...
As for 'Wing Sails'... Wharrams Gaff Wing rig has been around for 20+yrs or so and is raised/lowered/reefed relatively easily... first hand experience..
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Old 14-04-2011, 09:39   #26
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Re: BA Thesis Ecoyacht

Quote:
Originally Posted by dana-tenacity View Post
I'm watching with interest as I like the ideal of being as independant as possible of shore side systems.

Already it's possible to
1) collect rainwater
2) install a composting dunny
3) generate enough electricity to run a modest cruising boat
4) sail around without an engine
But there is one problem I can't resolve

cooking - can you generate enough power to be self sufficient? Filling propane tanks means you are going ashore and spending money on fuel
And what about food production - hydroponics?
Being independent from shore systems only sounds ECO if we make our own (energy/water/whatever) in a more ECO way than the shore systems do.

This expands on some boat items considered green - as e.g. solar panels. Think the alloy frame, the glass, the silicon wafers and the production process. Energy from solar panel can be greenish, but are solar panels an ECO, globally?

As far as food is concerned then in a boat you are virtually sailing in your food - the fish, the algae, the weeds. All edible and likely far more green than soya grown in Brazil where there used to be rainforest once.

Just thinking aloud.

b.
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Old 14-04-2011, 09:54   #27
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Re: BA Thesis Ecoyacht

some background reading
WINGSAILS, WALKER WINGSAIL SYSTEM, WING SAILING BOATS, CATAMARANS AND TRIMARANS | SOLAR NAVIGATOR WORLD ELECTRIC NAVIGATION CHALLENGE, NELSON KRUSCHANDL
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Old 14-04-2011, 10:03   #28
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Re: BA Thesis Ecoyacht

Why will a wingsail be more ECO than other types of sail?

What do you do with the wingsail when the boat is docked or at anchor?

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Old 14-04-2011, 10:29   #29
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Re: BA Thesis Ecoyacht

I hate to ask what may be an obvious question but why are you doing a thesis for a B of A degree? Is this somewhere the equivalent of independent research for a PhD and if so, what differentiates it from Doctorate research?
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Old 14-04-2011, 12:25   #30
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Re: BA Thesis Ecoyacht

Here it is called BA. It simply is a Bachelor degree, no doctorate.
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