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Old 20-10-2016, 17:02   #1
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Average Discount to Price

Is there an average discount that can generally be expected off the boats on sailboatlistings and yachtworld. I have heard the average is 10-20%.

I have also heard sometimes, after a survey, the prospective buyer and seller sometimes split estimated repairs.

I'm sure each party has different motivations, but is there a good rule of thumb when trying to budget and search for boats?
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Old 20-10-2016, 17:51   #2
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Re: Average Discount to Price

There is no rule of thumb. Boats get listed at very fair prices and others get listed at pipe dream numbers. It is your job to figure what the boat is worth to you.

Issues found during survey are up for renegotiation. If they are serious with the boat you walk from the deal or the sellers cuts the price to make it worth it to you. Minor issues are often ignored to make the sale close.
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Old 20-10-2016, 18:17   #3
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Re: Average Discount to Price

My first attempt at buying a boat recently, the seller wouldn't budge on the price and it wasn't in my budget to go higher than my offer.

My most recent attempt started with a 50% offer. We settled the next day, very close (hundreds, not thousands) to my offer. We began the process on a Saturday and on the following Monday my wife closed the deal while I was at work.

You won't know unless you try. I highly recommend starting at half, especially if it has been on the market for a while. My friend had his boat listed for $20,000 and received an early offer for $10,000. He turned it down and told me a year later when it was still for sale that he wished he had taken the $10,000 offer. Then the following season (2 years on the market) he lowered the price to $18,000 and accepted an offer of $12,000. After the survey they chiseled him down a little more.
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Old 20-10-2016, 18:32   #4
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Re: Average Discount to Price

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I'm sure each party has different motivations, but is there a good rule of thumb when trying to budget and search for boats?
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Old 20-10-2016, 18:49   #5
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Re: Average Discount to Price

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I'm sure each party has different motivations, but is there a good rule of thumb when trying to budget and search for boats?
A lot depends on your budget. For example:

If you are looking to spend up to $30,000, it's worth looking for boats advertised at up to twice that and making a lowball offer.

If you are looking to spend up to $300,000, there won't be much point in looking at and making an offer on boats priced more than about 25% above your budget.
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Old 20-10-2016, 21:58   #6
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Re: Average Discount to Price

Of course, it depends. Production boats with many sisterships are very easy to price. Get a buyers broker to pull comps for you of recent sales, study the dozens of data points you get carefully, and you'll have a very good idea of the right price for a given boat. A good buyers broker should already know about what she is worth, and can give you guidance.

Custom boats are more difficult to price. "Quality" is hard to measure and define. They have way more uncertainty, and I feel a well informed buyer, who is confident in making their own decisions about design and quality -- who doesn't need the psychological comfort of buying a boat that is on someone's shortlist on the web of desirable brands -- can get a very good deal.

For whatever it's worth, here are my buying and selling experiences:

Boat #1: Bought for ~10% less than asking price
Boat #1: Sold for initial asking price (more than I bought her for, but after 12 years of inflation, and was on market for less than a week)
Boat #2: Bought for 16% less than asking price (~58% off initial listing, was on market for ~3 years?)
Boat #2: Sold for 17% less than asking price (~30% off initial listing, was on market for ~10 months)
Boat #3: Bought for 26% less than asking price (41% off initial listing, was on and off market for ~4 years as the owners cruised and changed their plans)

Boat #1 was a production boat with a good reputation. She's in many books and lists of the 'ideal cruising boat'. There were several sisterships for sale at the same time. I studied them carefully, priced mine somewhere in a very fair middle (given her equipment and condition), and she was sold quickly with a handful of offers. People knew the brand well and were looking for that specific boat. I was happy to sell her quickly because I was paying >$1k/month for a marina.

Boat #2 was custom. I was immediately interested in her, but she was priced way too high. I waited about a year (until she had been on the market for about 3 years), as the price fell to the rough ballpark of what I thought she was worth, and I eventually made an offer. She is a very unique vessel, very strongly built, but has an unusual interior because of her lifting keel. Still, I think I paid too much for her, though I don't regret it, because we had years of fun with her and experiences I wouldn't trade for anything. I only say I paid too much because I sold her for 38% less than I bought her for (and 62% less than her initial asking price from the previous owner!). So I think I failed at guessing her resale value, I misjudged how rare my taste in boats is, and an easier to price production boat would have been a much better financial decision. However, at the time, we thought she would be our 'forever' boat.

Boat #3 is also custom. I feel I got a very good deal, for what we value in boats. But, again, I will only know how fair of a price I bought her for when it comes time to sell her (in however many years). Our BATNA for this boat was a big and modern Amel, which I feel for our priorities is a much lesser boat, but would no doubt be a very easy boat to price right and sell quickly, and perhaps a better financial decision (to be assured of only losing on the long tail of depreciation).

However, life isn't a spreadsheet. Boats always look completely ridiculous on a spreadsheet. They are tools to enable experiences that cannot be priced. And some boats just feel right, and fit you well, even if the numbers don't come out as well as they would with another option, another option that may not fit you as well.
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Old 20-10-2016, 22:54   #7
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Re: Average Discount to Price

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However, life isn't a spreadsheet. Boats always look completely ridiculous on a spreadsheet. They are tools to enable experiences that cannot be priced. And some boats just feel right, and fit you well, even if the numbers don't come out as well as they would with another option, another option that may not fit you as well.
Great summary, and very wise. Those of us who are attracted to one-off boats don't go that route for fiscal gain, but rather to enjoy a product that matches our desires and goals in a way that production boats can't do. When the day comes that we must sell, we hope to find another 'enthusiast' who shares our values. If we do, perhaps fiscal disaster may be avoided. If we don't, then we've paid a somewhat higher price for the joy the boat has brought to us. Can't speak for others, but I knew that when I bought Insatiable II, and I have no regrets. Hope to be sailing her for a few more years yet...

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Old 21-10-2016, 01:30   #8
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Re: Average Discount to Price

I've made a few offers at 50-60% to see if anyone would bite. I almost bought a 38' Sabre a few years ago that a doctor was selling at an amazing price. I am kind of hoping to find another such motivated seller.

I usually get either no response or a pithy comment. I am surprised the owners don't make a counter-offer at the least. I think some sellers expect way too much. If I get serious about a boat, I obviously want the best deal I can get, but don't want the seller to be offended to bitterness with a low starting number.
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Old 21-10-2016, 04:54   #9
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Re: Average Discount to Price

Like Paul L said, there is no rule of thumb. Some are priced pretty fairly. Some are priced ridiculously high--almost as if the seller really does not want to sell, or is maybe hoping for some ignorant sucker to come along and pay twice what it is worth. You have to judge each boat on its own merits, and adjust your offer accordingly.

If you really don't have any idea what you should be offering, then finding a reliable buyers broker might be worthwhile.

Good luck.
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Old 21-10-2016, 06:25   #10
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Re: Average Discount to Price

No rule of thumb. Some won't budge a penny. Others will cut the price in half just for calling.
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Old 21-10-2016, 06:33   #11
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Re: Average Discount to Price

Over the last two months I've investigated two boats.

The first was priced a couple percent higher than average for the model. The boat was immaculate, and in awesome condition. It sold for a tiny bit under asking price- and it was worth it.

The second boat seems like a good deal. But something fishy. Researching, I found that this $50k boat was for sale two years ago for $85k. And, I found out that it sold last year for $35k!!! So this is a case where 20% off asking the seller would have turned a profit, meaning they'd likely be willing to go way below 20% discount.
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Old 21-10-2016, 08:39   #12
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Re: Average Discount to Price

It depends upon is the asking price realistic or not and what price did you buy the boat for and what is wrong post survey.

We try to set our prices at askings well under 10% of negotiated prices and encourage the buyer to buy the boat with the idea that the seller is giving him his best price up front and there is little to no renegotiating post survey unless there is something really unforeseen major league wrong.


A good example of that would be the fresh water pump goes out on the engine. Is the seller going to fix it? Sure most likely because if the buyer walks, the seller has to do what? Fix the pump the next day anyway.

I think too many buyers think they are going to come in at 20-30% off of asking and some do and get boats for those "discounts" but those are generally for boats that were 15-20% over priced on asking anyway.

It also depends upon what price in the market are you in. To me right now the best discounts are on boats over $200K as that market has been softer in this economy. If you're looking $50-125K, we have boats selling at for within 1-2K of asking price (again if the boat was priced right to begin with).
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Old 21-10-2016, 08:48   #13
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Re: Average Discount to Price

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No rule of thumb. Some won't budge a penny. Others will cut the price in half just for calling.
This. There's no rhyme or reason in it whatsoever.

There are maybe a few major themes, in how prices evolve:

1. How motivated is the seller? Lots of boats for sale aren't seriously for sale. The seller doesn't care; maybe he's even still using the boat. As a rule this is not a good kind of boat to try to buy. Or on the contrary, is the seller getting desperate?

2. How appropriately priced is the boat? Sometimes the seller understands very well that a boat is overpriced, and has built-in flexibility. Other times, the opposite -- he knows it's priced well, and doesn't intend to budge.

3. How many buyers are in the market, for every such boat? It's my impression that there are millions of 1980's 30-odd foot cruising boats for sale, but few buyers, because most buyers already want something different. This will increase odds of reducing the price, as a rare buyer for a plentiful product on offer, will draw out as much flexibility as there is, in the market. On the contrary, if you are in the bad position I was in 2009 when I was buying my present boat, one among thousands of people looking for a bargain in a used high end cruising boat -- good luck. You might get prequalified to even SEE a boat which is for sale.

4. How flexible are YOU? If you NEED a boat -- you need to make a deal, or you'll lose the next season -- you'll be at a disadvantage.

5. What season? You will usually have a bit more bargaining power in the autumn when the sellers are facing the costs of storing the boat over another winter.



Good luck; you just need to look at lots and lots of boats, and use your nose. Don't try to do this in a hurry.
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Old 21-10-2016, 09:15   #14
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Re: Average Discount to Price

I think it's tough. I depends very much on the particular boat, the seller's situation, the time of year, how popular model of boat it is. 40% discount is not unheard of. If it's a popular boat design, and you are contracted at a high price, I would expect the seller to pay all repairs. If the contracted price to start is low for that model, then maybe split it. Some examples from my personal history:
-My Hans Christian 38. Listed for 1.5 years at what others in the country were listed at. Sold at 35% off listing price. Buyer would not budge above that and I was tired of paying moorage and the boat was going to need work if stored in the water longer.
-Bought a 44 ft cutter at 46% discount. Survey had turned up many repairs needed including some delam issues. Not a well known design. Most people would have walked out on the deal.
-Other boats I bought and sold at maybe 10-20% off asking price. On the boats I sold usually lost what I had upgraded or put into them and lost the broker's fee too if sold with a broker.
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Old 21-10-2016, 09:24   #15
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Re: Average Discount to Price

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