Average Discount to Price

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I hear and read statements like this frequently, and have to disagree. The solar panels that were not new when we bought the boat in 2003 are still up there, producing the same output as then. Sure, we could likely get a few more watts from the same area with newer panels, but if they are adequate, why would they need replacement in 3-5 years?

And same for electronics. Most of ours are aging well. We have added capability but not replaced working capability. The desire for the latest integrated systems has little to do with usefulness for cruising IMO.

If something dies (like our old Furuno 1720 radar) it will indeed need replacing. Butin that case, it was ~15 years old, not 3-5! And it was replaced with another stand alone Furuno... not the very best radar, but adequate to my needs.

Anyhow, I guess this is another idiosyncratic preference: I'd rather keep old stuff that is working, and has a track record of working in a cruising environment (as opposed to a marina-based environment) than replace it with the latest gadgetry.

I'm not quite a Luddite, but I am pretty resistive to marine advertising!

Jim

I hear what you're saying and personally am of same mindset. Just yesterday fixed an 11 year old flat computer screen, otherwise in fine condition, which needed one of the inside pin sets to be more firmly embedded.

But for me the frequent problems with older electronic are 1) bulk (on a 36 footer real estate is at a premium) 2) tech support (most makers don't want to lead you through testing and repairs of their older models and rather you'd buy their latest versions and 3) in the price range I was looking the electronics were usually a mish-mash of different makes not interacting with each other. 4) personal experience with a 2 or 3 year old TackTic set. Boy did I get the wrong idea when I counted its presence as a plus.

[alansmith]

Rambling, good sound logical post.

[alansmith]

Boy, I am really enjoying this thread.

Here is a question for you guys. What is freaking me out? I see a handful of boats ... let's say in the 40-70 K range. Owners have redone everything and boat is 30+ year old range. I will hear the broker say something like "they bought the boat 10 years ago for 70 K and put out over 100K in restoration and upgrades." But now they are selling it for 45K. Yikes!!! That just makes my brain go into melt down. I understand depreciation, market conditions, emotions, yadda...yadda .. so, if I have 10 year window left to actively cruise in what am I to think of this 40 K cherry "old boat" value ten years later?"
Now the boat is a 40 year old boat that has been kept up but wiring, engine, electronics.... maybe the boat is now worth only 10k and I basically just paid 30 K for the pleasures derived from this 10 years?

[Capt Phil]

Buyers and sellers should be wary of brokers representing one or the other. A good friend of mine was very interested in a Hans Christian that was moored locally. The owner who also lived locally was open to all offers as he was in the midst of a fairly large deck replacement project and just wanted out. I talked with the owner on two occasions before he 'fessed up to the fact that the vessel was listed with a broker in Southern California.
After appraising the prospective buyer of the condition of the boat and that it was listed with a broker, I had felt out a range that the owner would accept. I called my friend and gave him the range. He put together a rather low offer to see what the owner would come back with. The listing broker immediately got into the mix and told the buyer that the owner would accept no less than about 50% above the top of the range the owner had given me verbally which was what the broker had listed the boat for. At this point I backed out of all involvement in the deal.
My friend did not make an offer based on what the absentee broker told him. Four years later the boat is still sitting at the dock, unsold, in pretty decent shape but the owner is out 100% of the repairs, four years of moorage and little chance of generating an offer with winter coming on. The broker did a terrible job of representing his seller and lost out on his commission as well. Sellers and buyers beware!

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Capt Phil

Buyers and sellers should be wary of brokers representing one or the other. A good friend of mine was very interested in a Hans Christian that was moored locally. The owner who also lived locally was open to all offers as he was in the midst of a fairly large deck replacement project and just wanted out. I talked with the owner on two occasions before he 'fessed up to the fact that the vessel was listed with a broker in Southern California.
After appraising the prospective buyer of the condition of the boat and that it was listed with a broker, I had felt out a range that the owner would accept. I called my friend and gave him the range. He put together a rather low offer to see what the owner would come back with. The listing broker immediately got into the mix and told the buyer that the owner would accept no less than about 50% above the top of the range the owner had given me verbally which was what the broker had listed the boat for. At this point I backed out of all involvement in the deal.
My friend did not make an offer based on what the absentee broker told him. Four years later the boat is still sitting at the dock, unsold, in pretty decent shape but the owner is out 100% of the repairs, four years of moorage and little chance of generating an offer with winter coming on. The broker did a terrible job of representing his seller and lost out on his commission as well. Sellers and buyers beware!

That's just plain bad communication between the owner and their broker. How stupid is that? The owner likely never informed his broker of his preference (sell now, here's what I'll take for the boat), or updated him when his situation changed. It's his own fault. Brokers want to move boats, trust me. They would MUCH rather make a deal at a significant discount than to entertain month after month of tire kickers that end up being a waste of their time.

As for it still being on the market, four years later, who knows what the story there is. Probably has nothing to do with the broker holding out for an unreasonably high price, unless he's a complete idiot.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

For the most part I think people pat too much for older boats. That's why everyone says you never get your money out of upgrades or repairs. 25 year old boats are near worthless if they need a new engine, sails, rigging, interior cushions, electronics, paint, etc. Now if the boat was free you might get SOME of your money back, but not much.

If they need all that, then they have been poorly maintained and are probably lower-end production boats.

In truth, some of the best deals out there are on 25 year old custom or semi-custom boats that have been well maintained. For @ $50-100k give or take you can get one hell of a boat.

The fact of the matter is you don't get your money out of upgrades or repairs no matter how old the boat is. Buy a nearly new Beneteau, put an arch on it with solar and wind, and try to turn around and sell it for what you're all in for. Good luck.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Suijin

If they need all that, then they have been poorly maintained and are probably lower-end production boats.

In truth, some of the best deals out there are on 25 year old custom or semi-custom boats that have been well maintained. For @ $50-100k give or take you can get one hell of a boat.

The fact of the matter is you don't get your money out of upgrades or repairs no matter how old the boat is. Buy a nearly new Beneteau, put an arch on it with solar and wind, and try to turn around and sell it for what you're all in for. Good luck.

Well, yes you can. If one buys a boat for $200K, and puts $10K in upgrades in it and they sell it 2 years later, (after $38K depreciation) for $172K, they got there $10K in upgrades out, else it would have likely sold
for $162K. Now it is rare for one to get 100% of the retail
Value of an upgrade out. (I did that solely for easier illustration, but you get my drift.) Few owners account for depreciation at resale time, thinking well I've paid $x and put $y into it therefore $x+y=z. Very very rare. Normally on has to depreciate anything new by 20% immediately and 10% / yr thereafter. Boats (kept in good shape and upgraded reasonably) have not held 0% depreciation since 2008. Yes, in a world of near zero interest rates and negative money appreciation, this is the new reality. It costs to have fun, and so it should when so many are struggling just to eat.