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Old 26-08-2014, 19:23   #466
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

Price:
Price is mostly about size, age, and outfitting, and less about the style of boat. A comparably sized, aged, and outfitted monohull boat will be similarly priced to a multi-hull, market conditions being equal.

A confusing factor is that, below a certain size, Cat designs become more "difficult" for liveaboard/cruising purposes. Below a certain size (and price), monohulls suddenly appear as the more practical option for most people. This is compounded by confusion over what constitutes a "comparable" monohull.

In the past, a shortage of multihull availability had skewed pricing, but that is now heavily abated and probably a minor influence at this time. There are now many manufacturers making similar designs, and the inventory of cruising cats over 10 years old is growing fast.

Speed:
Cats and Monohulls alike come in "sleek and fast" and "fat and lazy". Many cat's are slower on the wind, but faster on other tacks than similar monohulls. Cat's outfitted with daggerboards will give much better upwind performance than those without.

Look and Feel:
Some people like the traditional style and motion of a monohull boat. That is purely a matter of aesthetics in "average" waters, but in very high and very low latitude conditions, different benefits come out.

Cats (in general) offer roomy, topdeck comforts with plenty of light, shade, and airflow in flat warm seas while (some) monohulls are designed for heavy, pounding waves and difficult ocean crossings ('difficult' being in comparison to the move from one Jamaican marina bar to the next)

Safety:
A cat is very hard to turn upside down (cruising cats), but once over it does not come back up.

A sailboat is easier to turn upside down, but once over has a chance of coming back up.

Since the monohull is burdened with an enormously heavy lead ballast, an upside down mono probably has the disadvantage in that it is probably going to sink to the bottom, taking all supplies with it, whereas the multi has a good chance of floating upside-down for a very long time. Since, in either case, both boats are likely to be "total losses", this value of the safety "benefit" is pretty marginal in the "average" case.
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Old 29-08-2014, 08:05   #467
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
I am not suggesting that MH guys are more capable than Mono owners, but asking (generally speaking) if they are more comfortable with newer, less traditional solutions?

Assuming price is not the issue, why would Jedi (for example) choose his mono over a multi?... (He is a pretty leading edge guy)

I can only speak for myself and my honest (admittedly ignorant) answer is 'Fear'!

I am not ignorant of survival conditions at sea, but have never experienced them in a Cat.....


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Problem is that for almost everyone price is an issue. There is another thread about battery monitors (to me not really that leading edge) where it is obvious decisions are being made on price. Even if someone has reasonable assets there is what I call a price/benefit issue. I had no problem getting a top of the line battery monitor. On the other hand I chose not to upgrade from flooded batteries to gels, knowing that I will have to keep an eye on the water level in the flooded batteries.

I would point out that I am going old school in terms of soft shackles instead of the metal one I not have, on the advice of a cat owner who I consider one of the most leading edge guys I know.

It is true there are guys like Jedi that seem to have the money to get a multihull but choose a monohull. If the truth be known there are conditions where I would get a monohull. But I am basically a modified coastal cruiser, Florida Keys and Bahamas South to Georgetown but not out in the thorn patch. There is really no need to make a passage more than maybe 80 miles (easily done in daylight) and good weather windows are easy to get in these areas. If I intended to round the great capes or sail in the Southern Oceans in general I would look at something like a steel hull monohull.

While you can never take all of the risk out of life given where am sailing and how I do it I feel quite comfortable on my cat. Not just from a risk perspective but in the big open salon/cockpit where even a light breeze that would make most monohulls too hot to be enjoyable. Most folks do agree at anchor in reasonable conditions a cat is more comfortable than a monohull and quite frankly I spend more time at anchor than sailing in the open ocean.

The biggest mistake I see people making is getting boats for what they want to do as opposed to what they really will be doing. If you will be cruising in the Keys or Bahamas I can't think of a better boat than a cat like mine.
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Old 29-08-2014, 09:45   #468
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

Very well said Tom....
..... for me living in a very active Typhoon area with poorly charted bays and almost zero coast guard assets... Those fears were my deciding factor.

So I chose a heavy, full keeled, double bottomed steel mono that would hopefully look after me if I got into trouble.
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Old 29-08-2014, 10:34   #469
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

Yessum

I have difficulty with people who express animosity to a vessel opposite to the number of hulls they have.

I love Catamarans. For me they are just what I want for the type of sailing that I want to do. However.... I would have no hesitation using a monohull and enjoying it if the circumstances dictated it. Right now, Im scooting around in the Westerly Centaur and having a blast and enjoying every second on the water.

Im on the water in a safe and comfortable vessel. Isnt that what its about?
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Old 29-08-2014, 11:39   #470
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfl View Post
It is true there are guys like Jedi that seem to have the money to get a multihull but choose a monohull. If the truth be known there are conditions where I would get a monohull. But I am basically a modified coastal cruiser, Florida Keys and Bahamas South to Georgetown but not out in the thorn patch. There is really no need to make a passage more than maybe 80 miles (easily done in daylight) and good weather windows are easy to get in these areas. If I intended to round the great capes or sail in the Southern Oceans in general I would look at something like a steel hull monohull.

While you can never take all of the risk out of life given where am sailing and how I do it I feel quite comfortable on my cat. Not just from a risk perspective but in the big open salon/cockpit where even a light breeze that would make most monohulls too hot to be enjoyable. Most folks do agree at anchor in reasonable conditions a cat is more comfortable than a monohull and quite frankly I spend more time at anchor than sailing in the open ocean.

The biggest mistake I see people making is getting boats for what they want to do as opposed to what they really will be doing. If you will be cruising in the Keys or Bahamas I can't think of a better boat than a cat like mine.
You are right Tom, but I think one element could be added to Your reasoning. Most of us have particular needs because of very different and sometime very intimate reasons, not necessary ones they want disclose and disscuss publicly. For some it is easier to fulfill such needs on catamaran, for some on monohull. For me it make chosing a boat very personal and indeed discreet matter.

So any posts like mono/multi is better cruiser, mono/multi wins hands down and so on, and so on are just a elementary lack of savoir vivre.

Assuming the boat is dependable and well put together there is not such a thing like better boat. It is only a matter of a boat suited to the very particular needs of the owner.

And You are very right that for almost everyone the price is issue. So the boat choice is almost everytime influenced by price. Criticizing someone's choice of boat too often is - in the matter of fact - the same like saying: You know, You have not enough money to do it right way. Awful.

Tomasz
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Old 29-08-2014, 14:51   #471
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

I've spent the last 6 weeks learning what and what not to do with my monohull. Also learned that fixing stuff you find you find a problem with should be fixed right away and not two or three days later. I've spent a few nights on board and found that a monohull just doesn't give me the room I need. It's just too cramped for me below deck. While I've been having a great time learning this and that with a monohull I can't wait to get my hands on a cat. I've looked at a few cats in my price range but the feel wasn't right when out on the water. I don't know if that's just because I am used to a monohull or if it's just a sixth sense saying this one isn't right keep looking. Whatever the case I look forward to getting a cat heading down the west coast then through the Panama Canal and up into the Caribbean in the next 18 months or so.

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Old 29-08-2014, 14:58   #472
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razoo View Post
I've spent the last 6 weeks learning what and what not to do with my monohull. Also learned that fixing stuff you find you find a problem with should be fixed right away and not two or three days later. I've spent a few nights on board and found that a monohull just doesn't give me the room I need. It's just too cramped for me below deck. While I've been having a great time learning this and that with a monohull I can't wait to get my hands on a cat. I've looked at a few cats in my price range but the feel wasn't right when out on the water. I don't know if that's just because I am used to a monohull or if it's just a sixth sense saying this one isn't right keep looking. Whatever the case I look forward to getting a cat heading down the west coast then through the Panama Canal and up into the Caribbean in the next 18 months or so.

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What Cats and what price range? Maybe some of your doubts or 'feelings' can be helped by some of us here who have been through the same process..
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Old 29-08-2014, 15:17   #473
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razoo View Post
I've spent the last 6 weeks learning what and what not to do with my monohull. Also learned that fixing stuff you find you find a problem with should be fixed right away and not two or three days later. I've spent a few nights on board and found that a monohull just doesn't give me the room I need. It's just too cramped for me below deck. While I've been having a great time learning this and that with a monohull I can't wait to get my hands on a cat. I've looked at a few cats in my price range but the feel wasn't right when out on the water. I don't know if that's just because I am used to a monohull or if it's just a sixth sense saying this one isn't right keep looking. Whatever the case I look forward to getting a cat heading down the west coast then through the Panama Canal and up into the Caribbean in the next 18 months or so.

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Are you saying that, based on some time in your 27' boat, you have decided monos are too small for you? Because I paid less for my 59' mono than most cats worth cruising on, and it has way more room than anything else in its price range. I have several neighbors with mid 40' cats I have been aboard, and they are tiny compared to my boat. Which I paid less for. And I much prefer it to a cat too!
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Old 29-08-2014, 15:36   #474
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Are you saying that, based on some time in your 27' boat, you have decided monos are too small for you? Because I paid less for my 59' mono than most cats worth cruising on, and it has way more room than anything else in its price range. I have several neighbors with mid 40' cats I have been aboard, and they are tiny compared to my boat. Which I paid less for. And I much prefer it to a cat too!

Good for you Minaret, good for you!


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Old 29-08-2014, 15:57   #475
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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What Cats and what price range? Maybe some of your doubts or 'feelings' can be helped by some of us here who have been through the same process..
I looked at 2 Gemini 105MC's both mid 90s and a mid 80s Prout Quest. All three are between $55k and $65k.

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Old 29-08-2014, 16:01   #476
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Are you saying that, based on some time in your 27' boat, you have decided monos are too small for you? Because I paid less for my 59' mono than most cats worth cruising on, and it has way more room than anything else in its price range. I have several neighbors with mid 40' cats I have been aboard, and they are tiny compared to my boat. Which I paid less for. And I much prefer it to a cat too!
Yes, I'm saying my 27' monohull is too cramped for me below deck. I can stand in the middle and touch both sides with my hands at the end of my outstretched arms. That might be plenty of room for you, but not for me.

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Old 29-08-2014, 16:04   #477
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

Quote:
Originally Posted by Razoo View Post
I looked at 2 Gemini 105MC's both mid 90s and a mid 80s Prout Quest. All three are between $55k and $65k.

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Not a lover of the Prout myself. The Gemini is Ok.
These are Pocket Cats designed for the smaller pocket and design wise are a little older. For myself, I would be happy with a Gemini 105MC, and can live with some design features Im not wild about. It handles OK for me and I like the space 2 hulls provide.

Cats will always cost a lot more than Monohulls. Thats just the way it is. At the price break sub 100K$, we buyers dont have much of a choice. Try a Catalac or an older Fountaine Pajot and see if that works for you.....
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Old 29-08-2014, 16:17   #478
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Not a lover of the Prout myself. The Gemini is Ok.
These are Pocket Cats designed for the smaller pocket and design wise are a little older. For myself, I would be happy with a Gemini 105MC, and can live with some design features Im not wild about. It handles OK for me and I like the space 2 hulls provide.

Cats will always cost a lot more than Monohulls. Thats just the way it is. At the price break sub 100K$, we buyers dont have much of a choice. Try a Catalac or an older Fountaine Pajot and see if that works for you.....
OK thanks. I'll look around and see if I can find the other two you mentioned and see if I can take them for a spin. I appreciate the info thanks again.

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Old 29-08-2014, 16:44   #479
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Yes, I'm saying my 27' monohull is too cramped for me below deck. I can stand in the middle and touch both sides with my hands at the end of my outstretched arms. That might be plenty of room for you, but not for me.

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Well that is on the smaller end of the spectrum of cruisers you realize?
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Old 29-08-2014, 16:45   #480
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

I'm far from talking You out of Your choice
I think particularly Gemini can be a nice boat for cruising.
But - You are looking into catamarans of about 33 - 35 ft.
Comparable monhull is about 40 ft., so Your observations from 27 ft. mono are not valid at all.

Wish You to choose a proper boat for You

Cheers,

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