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Old 25-08-2014, 14:47   #406
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Originally Posted by Randyonr3 View Post
Thats a load of crap.. and any full time cruiser will agree.. the type of boat you own NEVER comes up durring a discussion amoung cruisers.. that only happens on the internet and here on CF.
Your personal choice of boat of use is a personal choice and the line is not crossed or argued amoung cruisers, thats if infact you are a full time cruiser, and not just blowing smoke...
There are a lot of topics that do come up BUT the type of boat you have and how it compairs to your own boat or argueing about one or the other being a multi, mono, full keel, or fin, is kinda Taboo in conversation..

90% of the crap brought forth within the internet forms dont take place in an active cruising world...........................................
Apart from the sheer ignorance of calling somebody a liar when you have no absolutely evidence to support that statement whatsoever, that's absolutely laughable! I happen to BE a full time liveaboard cruiser, and the type of boat comes up in conversation plenty of times.

We get people coming aboard for the specific reason of wanting to look at our boat. Many of them mono owners who're thinking of building a cat. In fact this has happened more than once in just the last week.

Maybe in the US, where DIY appears to be just about dead, nobody is interested on other people's boats, but here in Aus people are quite keen to learn about other people's solutions.

And whether you believe it or not really doesn't interest me, but we do get the occasional visitor who seems to just want to tell us why he would never own a cat.
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Old 25-08-2014, 14:50   #407
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
This hasn't been our experience in the past 6 years out cruising full time. We have been amazed and dismayed at the number of people we have barely just met who immediately ask us what type of boat we have and then start ranting on about how dangerous multihulls are. Some of these people get downright incensed and angry about multihulls. They are all mono people (obviously, given the topic).

Really. Not just one or two, but lots. Enough that we now joke about it. More than anyone having strong feelings about engine makes, electric winches, watermakers, windgens, gensets, etc. At first we were shocked and a bit taken aback, but now we look forward to it because it humors us so.

In the most recent example, the person got all red and started yelling at me about multihulls. Claimed his friends flipped their cruising cat three times just in the protected waters of Belize! I asked what kind of cat it was and he couldn't remember. I asked what size it was and he said "big". I asked what the name of the boat was and he couldn't remember. I asked what the name of his friend was and he got very mad and said he couldn't remember off-hand, then accused me of using these questions to call him a liar.

I was, of course…

So I call crap on your calling crap! It happens all the time to us. I imagine that having a monohull, though, it doesn't happen ever to you.

Mark
Guess you're either a liar or not a REAL cruiser either!
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Old 25-08-2014, 14:53   #408
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
SNIP

So I call crap on your calling crap! It happens all the time to us. I imagine that having a monohull, though, it doesn't happen ever to you.

Mark
Well I call crap on your calling crap on him calling crap.

Could not resist.
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Old 25-08-2014, 15:03   #409
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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So I call crap on your calling crap! It happens all the time to us. I imagine that having a monohull, though, it doesn't happen ever to you.
Maybe it's something about being in the Caribe, or maybe it is just you, Mark, but what you describe is simply foreign to our experience here in the South Pacific. We have friends with cats, with tris, with ferro monohulls, with steel, with timber or aluminium vessels... even motor yachts. There are nearly two thousand entries in our "boats met" data base, all folks we have known well enough to exchange details with. That represents a pretty big data base. We've never heard any of them criticize someone else's choice in the way that you describe. We would be shocked and pretty unhappy if we did.

You seem to show up in a lot of the contentious mono vs. multi threads, so it appears that there is something going on in your experience that sensitizes you to this issue. All of us have made a choice in what boat we buy to go cruising in; most of us are happy with our choices. But that doesn't mean that we think other's choices are wrong for them, or that our choice is "better" on some absolute scale... just for us. Sometimes choices are made for fiscal reasons rather than technical or aesthetic ones, but somehow that never seems to result in berating fellow cruisers for being on a different scale.

In short, I have to side with Randy on this, and say that your observations don't reflect the realities that I have experienced in a lot of years and miles of cruising.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 25-08-2014, 15:08   #410
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Maybe it's something about being in the Caribe, or maybe it is just you, Mark, but what you describe is simply foreign to our experience here in the South Pacific. We have friends with cats, with tris, with ferro monohulls, with steel, with timber or aluminium vessels... even motor yachts. There are nearly two thousand entries in our "boats met" data base, all folks we have known well enough to exchange details with. That represents a pretty big data base. We've never heard any of them criticize someone else's choice in the way that you describe. We would be shocked and pretty unhappy if we did.

You seem to show up in a lot of the contentious mono vs. multi threads, so it appears that there is something going on in your experience that sensitizes you to this issue. All of us have made a choice in what boat we buy to go cruising in; most of us are happy with our choices. But that doesn't mean that we think other's choices are wrong for them, or that our choice is "better" on some absolute scale... just for us. Sometimes choices are made for fiscal reasons rather than technical or aesthetic ones, but somehow that never seems to result in berating fellow cruisers for being on a different scale.

In short, I have to side with Randy on this, and say that your observations don't reflect the realities that I have experienced in a lot of years and miles of cruising.

Cheers,

Jim
Once again Jim, you own a monohull. You're not going to get monohull sailors coming aboard your boat to tell you it's unsafe because it's a catamaran!
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Old 25-08-2014, 15:10   #411
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

I have also experienced what Mark has. The berating we received over our choice of vessel in the early nineties was much harsher than now. Maybe that was because multis at that time hadn't caught on. Now it's much more civilized, but with the occasional obnoxious jab at our vessel choice.


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Old 25-08-2014, 15:14   #412
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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I have also experienced what Mark has. The berating we received over our choice of vessel in the early nineties was much harsher than now. Maybe that was because multis at that time hadn't caught on. Now it's much more civilized, but with the occasional obnoxious jab at our vessel choice.


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ANOTHER liar!

Or maybe catamaran owners have more of an idea of what owning a cat is like than people who have never sailed on one...
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Old 25-08-2014, 15:55   #413
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
ANOTHER liar!

Or maybe catamaran owners have more of an idea of what owning a cat is like than people who have never sailed on one...

We have owned a few and not all cats are created equal. Our first cat almost chased us back to a monohull......thank god We were open minded!


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Old 25-08-2014, 16:43   #414
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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We have owned a few and not all cats are created equal. Our first cat almost chased us back to a monohull......thank god We were open minded!
Seen plenty of monohulls that were not created equal as well. There are well designed boats and poorly designed boats no matter how many hulls they have.
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Old 25-08-2014, 16:51   #415
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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...There are well designed boats and poorly designed boats no matter how many hulls they have.
It's just that cat and tri designers have twice or three times the chance of getting it wrong!
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Old 25-08-2014, 17:03   #416
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Once again Jim, you own a monohull. You're not going to get monohull sailors coming aboard your boat to tell you it's unsafe because it's a catamaran!
True, but then I don't get catamaran owners (and we socialize frequently with these odd folks) telling me that my boat is unsafe because it has a bolt-on lead keel which will either fall off or cause me to sink... like the more rabid multi-fans keep posting here on CF. I think this would be the analogous situation to what you describe.

And oddly, our friends with multi hull boats of all descriptions haven't mentioned being boarded and berated by monomorons, and that is the point I was trying to express: people may harbour these feelings about other designs, but they don't get in your face about it. Thus, it seems that it could be a personality thing that is stimulating these apparently unpleasant encounters. Or simply that you know lots of folks with very bad manners.

So, enough already! Lets get back to sailing and away from angst amongst sailors.

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 25-08-2014, 17:10   #417
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

But it's WW III!
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Old 25-08-2014, 17:23   #418
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Thumbs down Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
True, but then I don't get catamaran owners (and we socialize frequently with these odd folks) telling me that my boat is unsafe because it has a bolt-on lead keel which will either fall off or cause me to sink... like the more rabid multi-fans keep posting here on CF. I think this would be the analogous situation to what you describe.

And oddly, our friends with multi hull boats of all descriptions haven't mentioned being boarded and berated by monomorons, and that is the point I was trying to express: people may harbour these feelings about other designs, but they don't get in your face about it. Thus, it seems that it could be a personality thing that is stimulating these apparently unpleasant encounters. Or simply that you know lots of folks with very bad manners.

So, enough already! Lets get back to sailing and away from angst amongst sailors.

Cheers,

Jim
Jim,

My background is with charter boats both monohull and catamaran diving and fishing on the GBR and coral sea.

I am a newcomer to sailing having chartered a couple of sailing cats in the Whitsundays as background to purchasing a sailing catamaran to liveaboard in retirement.

I was not aware of the issue that monohull sailors have with catamarans but quickly found out on CF following the catamaran threads for the last 4-5 years.

I would expect your experience cruising Aus &N Z where there are quite a lot of cats to be valid and a non issue and was not something I had come across before CF.

However it certainly is an issue for the rabid monohull sailors on CF and so it seems also in the Carribean.

I doubt it would be an issue in France.http://www.cruisersforum.com/images/icons/icon13.gif
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Old 25-08-2014, 17:33   #419
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
You seem to show up in a lot of the contentious mono vs. multi threads, so it appears that there is something going on in your experience that sensitizes you to this issue.

In short, I have to side with Randy on this, and say that your observations don't reflect the realities that I have experienced in a lot of years and miles of cruising.
Really, I show up in those threads? They mostly bore me and I can't recall being on one in many years, but perhaps I am not aware of it. Maybe you could point to one? I certainly show up in other contentious threads, but the multi/mono ones don't interest me much.

But it is funny to know that my experiencing crass people are my own fault! Until now, I couldn't figure out why people I was making no effort to talk to or even meet were getting angry over our type of boat. Now I know it is my fault!

Or maybe I am making it up? Your last paragraph does seem to suggest this.

Mark
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Old 25-08-2014, 17:41   #420
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
True, but then I don't get catamaran owners (and we socialize frequently with these odd folks) telling me that my boat is unsafe because it has a bolt-on lead keel which will either fall off or cause me to sink... like the more rabid multi-fans keep posting here on CF. I think this would be the analogous situation to what you describe.



And oddly, our friends with multi hull boats of all descriptions haven't mentioned being boarded and berated by monomorons, and that is the point I was trying to express: people may harbour these feelings about other designs, but they don't get in your face about it. Thus, it seems that it could be a personality thing that is stimulating these apparently unpleasant encounters. Or simply that you know lots of folks with very bad manners.



So, enough already! Lets get back to sailing and away from angst amongst sailors.



Cheers,



Jim

I think the experienced multihullers here have constantly maintained the position that the chances of a well designed multi flipping is about the same as a well designed mono sinking. These are the facts if you take the time to research them.
I might also add that it's very rare for a multihuller to go on the mono forum and berate their boats but it's common place for the monohull crowd to come on the multi forum and tell us our boats are crap. Jealousy?


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