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Old 24-07-2014, 06:56   #316
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Originally Posted by ArtM View Post

(...)

"In the kinds of shallow and protected seas that are widely popular for cruising, and where the cruiser has the means and desire to own and cruise in a boat above a certain size/price point, there is no question that the mono has become a dinosaur"

Below a certain size/price point, and/or in some kinds of seas the Mono still holds a strong attraction. I'd rather live aboard a 32' monohull than a 32' multihull.

And then there is the battle about whether a cruiser is a sailor and vice-versa.... a battle I like to exit with the line that this is called the "Cruisers" forum, not the "Sailors" forum.
Mobiles may be cooking our brains and yet you will see thousands of people doing this every day, hours long, everywhere.

Catamarans may be the "worse" boats, and yet whoever can afford, goes for a cat as their cruising tool.

And as far as your last doubt is concerned I dare attach an image ...

Big hug,
b.
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Old 25-07-2014, 22:03   #317
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Catamarans may be the "worse" boats, and yet whoever can afford, goes for a cat as their cruising tool.
I'm not so sure I buy that argument. There are two people I know who can well afford a catermaran, but prefer a mono hull as their cruising tool. That tells me there's much more to it than just affordability.
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Old 25-07-2014, 22:40   #318
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

I have not been at sea in a cat when the poo hits the fan. I have in a 40 foot mono, 28 hrs of sustained 65kts with seas scary big. When your in the cockpit and look up at the bare mast and all you can see at times is walls of water, you start to look forward to the forecast drop in wind to the mid 40s. Now fast forward to a Couple of weeks ago coming back to Airlie Beach in a lagoon 440. Just a 5 mile hop across Whitsunday passage 30kts wind over tide and it was scary, in fact the owner turned around to wait for the tide change, I was happy with his decision. I have always been mindful of weather but sometimes you get caught out.


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Old 25-07-2014, 23:37   #319
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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I have not been at sea in a cat when the poo hits the fan. I have in a 40 foot mono, 28 hrs of sustained 65kts with seas scary big. When your in the cockpit and look up at the bare mast and all you can see at times is walls of water, you start to look forward to the forecast drop in wind to the mid 40s. Now fast forward to a Couple of weeks ago coming back to Airlie Beach in a lagoon 440. Just a 5 mile hop across Whitsunday passage 30kts wind over tide and it was scary, in fact the owner turned around to wait for the tide change, I was happy with his decision. I have always been mindful of weather but sometimes you get caught out.


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OMG I find that difficult to believe it that scary in a 440 rather more unpleasant. I my youth used to run over to dive Hayman Is area in strong wind warnings with a 19ft Haines powerboat when was to rough to go out of Mackay.

Had some similar weather with charters on a Seawind 1000 and Lagoon 400 (during cyclone season)and never found any concern. Both handled conditions well with a bit of movement in the tidal rip areas and reinforced my choice to go with catamaran.

cheers
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Old 26-07-2014, 00:37   #320
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

I get a kick out of some of you guys and your discussion of rough seas. Now we have a 19 ft. runnabout that is going to take on some weather....when I read that I know you haven't really been out in anything really big because some of the stuff I've been in a 19 ft runabout would be swamped within a few minutes.

I don't have any experience in big seas and Cats but I expect a Cat would do OK although I wouldn't want to be sitting up on one of those fly bridges.
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Old 26-07-2014, 03:56   #321
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
I get a kick out of some of you guys and your discussion of rough seas. Now we have a 19 ft. runnabout that is going to take on some weather....when I read that I know you haven't really been out in anything really big because some of the stuff I've been in a 19 ft runabout would be swamped within a few minutes.

I don't have any experience in big seas and Cats but I expect a Cat would do OK although I wouldn't want to be sitting up on one of those fly bridges.
I have experienced very large seas... survival conditions and in ships with a lot more dynamic stability than a cat.
The issue quickly becomes:
NOT which one is the most comfortable at anchor
But:
Which watertight vessel will survive if capsized or rolled?

When I talk about a yacht with heavy ballast and a solid foot in the water... It is from these perspectives.


The decision on which type of yacht to buy... is not made with survival conditions as the top priority... or else we would all be buying submarine's.
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Old 26-07-2014, 07:27   #322
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Originally Posted by Razoo View Post
I'm not so sure I buy that argument. There are two people I know who can well afford a catermaran, but prefer a mono hull as their cruising tool. That tells me there's much more to it than just affordability.
Perhaps their cruising grounds lend themselves to choosing a mono?

Still, you got me here; my statement was unashamedly dramatic. This is one of my favourite writing tools when participating in reality show threads. ;-)

b.
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Old 26-07-2014, 09:41   #323
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Originally Posted by SimonV View Post
I have not been at sea in a cat when the poo hits the fan. I have in a 40 foot mono, 28 hrs of sustained 65kts with seas scary big. When your in the cockpit and look up at the bare mast and all you can see at times is walls of water, you start to look forward to the forecast drop in wind to the mid 40s. Now fast forward to a Couple of weeks ago coming back to Airlie Beach in a lagoon 440. Just a 5 mile hop across Whitsunday passage 30kts wind over tide and it was scary, in fact the owner turned around to wait for the tide change, I was happy with his decision. I have always been mindful of weather but sometimes you get caught out.

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There is most likely no comparison between a lake and the ocean so, I think I have to get out into ocean water to fully understand this wind and heavy seas thing. But I was in 15-20kts winds most of yesterday on the lake and with my limited experience I had no problem though it was a bit of a workout for me. Seas on the lake, if there is such a thing, were around .5mts (about 1-1/2 feet). Is the problem more the wind or the seas out on the ocean?
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Old 26-07-2014, 11:57   #324
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

Well wind makes the waves, being underway stabalizes all displacement hulls, but you can't sail when the winds are too strong so you heave to and hope you don't get hit broadside by a towering breaking wave. Otherwise you roll. If a cat gets rolled it has an excellent chance of gets stuck turtled


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Old 26-07-2014, 12:15   #325
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Originally Posted by Scot McPherson View Post
Well wind makes the waves, being underway stabalizes all displacement hulls, but you can't sail when the winds are too strong so you heave to and hope you don't get hit broadside by a towering breaking wave. Otherwise you roll. If a cat gets rolled it has an excellent chance of gets stuck turtled


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You are right, but a cat gets rolled much less frequently than a mono.


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Old 26-07-2014, 12:55   #326
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

We've discovered something else different about monohull and multihull cruisers. Multihull cruisers don't tend to cover the dock where they tie up with all the stuff they need to get out of the boat to either dry out or give themselves room to move. I guess living under water has it's ramifications.
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Old 26-07-2014, 16:00   #327
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Originally Posted by Scot McPherson View Post
Well wind makes the waves, being underway stabalizes all displacement hulls, but you can't sail when the winds are too strong so you heave to and hope you don't get hit broadside by a towering breaking wave. Otherwise you roll. If a cat gets rolled it has an excellent chance of gets stuck turtled


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Yes, I understand wind makes waves. It just seems to me that the waves are smaller on a lake with a wind at 20kts than they are on the ocean with a wind at 20kts. So, I take it the depth of the water has a lot to do with it the size of the wave also. Out of curiosity, on the ocean how strong of wind will put you into heave to mode in a mono or multi?
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Old 26-07-2014, 17:35   #328
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

In analysing the Seas you will face in heavy weather...these are some of the factors to consider.

Wave Period/Height /Fetch/History/secondary swells/topography/ocean current direction

Noting that a wave period the same length as your boat is the most critical and dangerous situation (anywhere).

Worth reading
http://www.stormsurf.com/page2/tutor...vebasics.shtml
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Old 26-07-2014, 18:47   #329
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Yes, I understand wind makes waves. It just seems to me that the waves are smaller on a lake with a wind at 20kts than they are on the ocean with a wind at 20kts. So, I take it the depth of the water has a lot to do with it the size of the wave also. Out of curiosity, on the ocean how strong of wind will put you into heave to mode in a mono or multi?
Wave height is dependent on three factors:
1. Wind strength
2. Wind duration (how long it blows in the same direction)
3. Fetch (the uninterrupted distance over which the wind blows in the same direction)

The third factor is the critical one when talking about ocean waves. A steady 20 knots will build much bigger waves over 1000 miles of ocean than they will over a couple of miles in a lake.
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Old 26-07-2014, 20:30   #330
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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In analysing the Seas you will face in heavy weather...these are some of the factors to consider.

Wave Period/Height /Fetch/History/secondary swells/topography/ocean current direction

Noting that a wave period the same length as your boat is the most critical and dangerous situation (anywhere).

Worth reading
Wave Basics (Stormsurf)

Awesome tutorial Pelagic. Thanks, I appreciate that greatly.
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