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Old 23-04-2014, 17:56   #151
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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As we all do!

A bit of thread drift -- but why not set up cats to blow the sheets automatically beyond a certain degree of heel? It would be reasonably simple, I would think, to engineer. Most heading sensors will now give heel angle data. And there are now reversible winches.
I sailed on a Cross Tri interisland in the early 80s that had such a system. It worked well. As with most things to do with sailing. It's been done before.
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Old 30-04-2014, 06:29   #152
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

Wish I could own one of each since they both have +'s and -'s!
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Old 30-04-2014, 06:50   #153
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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As we all do!

A bit of thread drift -- but why not set up cats to blow the sheets automatically beyond a certain degree of heel? It would be reasonably simple, I would think, to engineer. Most heading sensors will now give heel angle data. And there are now reversible winches.
Because logically it has little relevance. Multis in fact don't often capsize in the sense of going over sideways, i.e. going past 90 degree heel. Indeed I have not spoken with a person who has been in a multi that has been blown over sideways. I have spoken to many who have gone over however and the inversion of multis is from what I can glean studying the reports and the real life accounts of those who have done it, is more often the result of a pitchpole, the boat becomes overpowered, depresses the leeward hull and ultimately trips over itself. By the time its going over, its probably way to late, you could ease the sheets all you like, the dynamic has be put in motion and its unlikely to be stopped.

Considered hull shapes and reserve buoyancy forward is likely to have a greater contribution. As well as of course prudent seamanship.

The same as it is for any type of vessel, - thoughtfully designed, sensibly sailed, risk reduced.

Don't get me wrong here, not saying a multi can't be blown over, but have yet to see it on a sensible cruising boat. Racing however is a whole other issue. Which is why when racing we never have sheets locked in clutches and or in self tailing winches. That habit transfers to my cruising, in same ways, eg I will never leave a handle in a winch, makes it to hard to get the sheet off in a jiffy.
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Old 30-04-2014, 22:48   #154
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Because logically it has little relevance. Multis in fact don't often capsize in the sense of going over sideways, i.e. going past 90 degree heel. Indeed I have not spoken with a person who has been in a multi that has been blown over sideways. I have spoken to many who have gone over however and the inversion of multis is from what I can glean studying the reports and the real life accounts of those who have done it, is more often the result of a pitchpole, the boat becomes overpowered, depresses the leeward hull and ultimately trips over itself. By the time its going over, its probably way to late, you could ease the sheets all you like, the dynamic has be put in motion and its unlikely to be stopped.

Considered hull shapes and reserve buoyancy forward is likely to have a greater contribution. As well as of course prudent seamanship.

The same as it is for any type of vessel, - thoughtfully designed, sensibly sailed, risk reduced.



Don't get me wrong here, not saying a multi can't be blown over, but have yet to see it on a sensible cruising boat. Racing however is a whole other issue. Which is why when racing we never have sheets locked in clutches and or in self tailing winches. That habit transfers to my cruising, in same ways, eg I will never leave a handle in a winch, makes it to hard to get the sheet off in a jiffy.
Thanks learned something
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Old 01-05-2014, 03:22   #155
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Thanks learned something
Multis skid. It is at the same time the most fun and frightening thing in the wrong weather. Unless it has centre boards or dagger boards, the whole darned thing will 'slide' sideways.
Takes a little to get used to. But then I tend to be a fair weather sailor anyhows so dont see it too much.
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Old 01-05-2014, 14:46   #156
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Multis skid. It is at the same time the most fun and frightening thing in the wrong weather. Unless it has centre boards or dagger boards, the whole darned thing will 'slide' sideways.
Takes a little to get used to. But then I tend to be a fair weather sailor anyhows so dont see it too much.
Thats the theory, and its one reason why boards are better than minikeels, (sometimes though MKs are better than boards). Some views of stability and capsize suggest that the reason monos (some) get rolled is their deep /long keels present a tripping point when they are side on to wave action. . CJ Marchaj in his book Seaworthiness The Forgotten Factor, seemed to have conclusions in that direction. The other key is of course not getting side on in the first place, to reduce risk of broaching being initiated. which is again where the average cat will be better placed.

On a race boat I crew on we use the sliding effect on broad broad reaching legs, pull the boards up, point the boat up to get better apparent numbers and let it slide down line to the mark.
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Old 01-05-2014, 14:59   #157
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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Because logically it has little relevance. Multis in fact don't often capsize in the sense of going over sideways, i.e. going past 90 degree heel.

SNIP
There is really no such thing as a multihull. There are several different makes of both cats and tris with very different designs.

The ones with great big fat bow sections and reasonable rigs are very hard to capsize. Long thin narrow bow sections and too much canvas can pitchpole. Cats with center/dagger boards can trip over the leeward board, especially if there are steep square waves and the windward hull is flying (more accurately out of the water because waves in a confused sea fall out from under the hull) allowing the wind to get under the bridge deck and flip the boat over.

As a rule when a boat suffers a disaster like flipping it is the result of several factors. While releasing the main sheet may help it may not prevent the boat from flipping.
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Old 01-05-2014, 15:08   #158
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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SNIP

The other key is of course not getting side on in the first place, to reduce risk of broaching being initiated. which is again where the average cat will be better placed.

SNIP
Back in the day I use to crew on monohulls in the SORC races. I was just a kid in junior/senior highschool, not really big or strong enough to be a deck monkey. But in a following sea I would be driving the boat. I could drive the serious sailors crazy because I called broaching 'wiping out' and always use to say 'surf's up dude'.

Some folks, especially those who never surfed as kids, seem unable to surf boats; be they multihulls or monohulls. Of course in a confused sea it may not be possible or wise to try and surf. And that is probably where most boating disasters happen; in unsettled weather with unpredictable waves and gusty winds.
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Old 01-05-2014, 15:41   #159
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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No, that argument is not overstated. Your heads are much bigger than ours.


Onno
Do I detect a low blow in there?
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Old 01-05-2014, 16:00   #160
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

You know I've never been on a catamaran and I think in the last 6 years I've seen maybe 4 in the whole Boston area.

So why doesn't come prove how great they to me and take me out on theirs?
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:26   #161
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

Found a few cats in my budget range then I discovered the Macgregor 26x and 26m. Looks like a pretty nice mono to me. Not as much room as a cat, but maybe more versatile with bigger power. Has a 50 on the 26x and a 70 on the 26m. Anyone sailed one of these on the open ocean?
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:18   #162
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

I'm sure they have both been sailed in the open ocean, right off Southern California to be exact.
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Old 02-05-2014, 11:09   #163
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

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I'm sure they have both been sailed in the open ocean, right off Southern California to be exact.
So you've never sailed one in the open ocean and can tell me how they handled for you or anything else about them then?
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Old 02-05-2014, 11:20   #164
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

No I have never sailed one of these boats but I do know that they are sailed in there hometown so to speak. They are a lake boat but you can do some limited coastal cruising with them. Not designed for offshore waters. Winds are usually on the light side in SC in the summer.
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Old 02-05-2014, 11:29   #165
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Re: At The Risk of Starting WWlll

Macgregor is kinda the bottom of the food chain.
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