Asleep on Watch

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Red Sky

+++1 Ken. If my life is in the watch keepers hands, they better be awake.

No, but it is like the story of the girl who was "just a little bit" pregnant.

There's a fact here, that the person was asleep. Therefore the skipper has at least one problem. Was it an unseen problem before boarding? does the person have narcolepsy? What is an error in pre-sailing discussions? Had the crew been adequately briefed? Did they not understand they had to stay awake? Is there a problem with watch-keeping skills (like what Kenomac and I mentioned about getting up and standing, etc.) ?

Once the skipper has the established fact of the watchkeeper asleep, IMO, no matter how scared or angry the skipper, the fact is that the ex-watchkeeper physiologically needs to rest before the confrontation occurs. Getting him or her all stirred up before sending them to sleep will interfere with their sleep, and therefore with all the other watches.

You can relieve them of duty, of course, but then that affects everybody else, too, plus the downside of having a grumpy crew member. Remember these guys are ~ 100 n. mi. offshore, it will be at least 24 hrs. to return to a port, to put him or her off the boat.

As skipper, part of your job is to handle this situation in such a way as to turn it into a plus for the whole crew, for the rest of the voyage, if possible. You might want to pair someone with such crew for part of their watch, or give them a watch that fits better with their biorhythms, as someone above reported doing.

It is only a problem to be solved. You might feel as if it were a character flaw, but in fact, it is a mystery, if you will, for you to sort out.

In all honesty, in all my not wanting to take on crew, I had never considered that I would pick someone inadequate, and nor would I have thought to ask about narcolepsy, which shows some lack of imagination on my part! However, if I believed it were a contest of captaincy, that they were not accepting that captain-authority of mine, I would take on the burden of getting them ashore, unless there were a pressing reason to continue, and then, that, too, would have to be weighed. (I would expect that the effect on the whole crew would not be good, they would resent the inconvenience of the longer voyage being imposed on them, and a boat is a small space in which to have unresolved conflict.)

El Pinguino had a problem on one of his long voyages (NZ to Chile) with some crew, perhaps he would care to tell us how he handled the problem, when putting back to land was not an option

Ann

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Calif.Ted

Assuming they aren't in my way I'd check our position and situation and assume the watch.
Once they wake up they either make excuses or man up and you know what you are dealing with.

Although I have read SB’s answer and Ann’s.
I think this is the cut to the chase answer. There may be medical reasons, who knows, but you’ll get to them in the morning when you have calmed down and the offender has had a chance to think etc.
I had a friend that was a crop duster, he fell asleep at 10’ off of the ground going 130 MPH. He wasn’t slovenly or lazy, turns out he had sleep apnea and didn’t know it.
I had undiagnosed sleep apnea for awhile, was always exhausted and lived off of massive amounts of caffeine, and I used to doze off when flying, couldn’t help it.
Yes, he crashed in the middle of the field, nearly brand new G10 too.

[hellosailor]

First time I was seasick on a sailboat (helped by things like hanging upside down in the engine bay trying to fix the engine, the beers with dinner on the dock, and some ugly weather) someone said "Here, some crackers will settle your stomache". No, do not ever use imitation butter flavor Ritz crackers for that, the imitation grease defeats the purpose. Then they said take a couple of these (the original Dramamine) and that put me out like a light. Some twelve hours later someone woke me up, stuck a winch handle in my hands, and said "Can you help reef?" and when they saw my glazed eyes and my grunt of "huh?" they took the winch handle away again. (Smart idea!).

Not intentionally asleep--just drugged unconcious. Night watch who took, or was offered, meds for the first time, might have just turned off. Likewise, most people don't realize that you can be driving a car, a boat, a plane....and if you have gone long enough without proper sleep, at some point you WILL simply pass out and sleep. If you're lucky you find that out when you are not in charge of a large moving object.

From what the OP said...we just don't know. Maybe the boat was attacked by pigmy pirates with blow guns, and the poor guy got shot.

[Calif.Ted]

Due to sick crew I was taking all night watches, 3rd night got caught in a little gale. Next day crew said they thought I'd gone crazy, I was dancing and singing "blow the man down" and generally behaving in an unusual manner at the wheel all night.
"Hell no, I was just trying to stay awake, I was hallucinating that the wind gauge represented a piece of pie and whenever the piece got too narrow or fat I had to correct".

[JPA Cate]

So, fatigue is the problem. With maybe dehydration, as well.

Yes, A64pilot, you're right, you do want to confirm where the boat is, and that all is well with her.

Preventing extreme fatigue is the primary duty of the shorthanded sailor, imo. And it is the duty of the skipper to have informed the crew of the necessity for effective mal de mer medication, or to provide it. Unfortunately, not much works --except the suppositories-- once the vomiting has begun.

Preventing seaskickness is only about a physiological issue. What is, imho, invalid, is to transform it into a machismo contest.

Ann

[Cheechako]

I slept regularly on watch offshore out of busy shipping lanes. Used the egg timer. My guess would be you could send an unmanned drone around the world programmed to stay 100 miles from any land and never have a collision. yeah, radical thoughts I suppose...
If you are against any sleep on watch, then you must be against single handing by definition.

[Uricanejack]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Wake them up and tell them to go to bed.

People on watch rarely choose to fall asleep, they just couldn’t stay awake and there’s a path that caused that.

+1
It isn't the Army no need to have them shot at dawn

[Calif.Ted]

My guess would be you could send an unmanned drone around the world programmed to stay 100 miles from any land and never have a collision. yeah, radical thoughts I suppose...

What little I remember about "Statistics" leads me to agree with you, with all the empty in the Pacific it would seem the chance of hitting something without trying is really small, I'm loathe to put much trust in that theory however.
Years ago a poorly maintained and partially paid for Catalina 30 was lost on a voyage from Dana Point to San Diego (60nm). Showed up months later in Hawaii with unused cases of beer, canned food and cigarettes in the cabin.
The boat must have sailed itself there unaided.

[a64pilot]

I can tell you that I have twice almost been run down by fishing boats at night in the Gulf of Mexico.
Twice, and I am not all that experienced.
Both times the boats were going fast, lit up like a carnival ride, bright lights on in the wheel house and nobody visible in the wheel house.

[Jason Flare]

Driving a car late at night I would close my right eye (US. Wheel on port side of auto,) and let my chin drop to my chest and start snoring while watching the road with my left eye.

It’s alarming to those awake and not in control of the vehicle.

[leboyd]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I can tell you that I have twice almost been run down by fishing boats at night in the Gulf of Mexico.
Twice, and I am not all that experienced.
Both times the boats were going fast, lit up like a carnival ride, bright lights on in the wheel house and nobody visible in the wheel house.

Definitely NEVER sleep on watch off the Gulf coast of Texas. Besides the fishing boats you mention, there are enough unlit structures you need to keep a keen eye out. We always use two on watch if there are four people or more on the boat.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

No, but it is like the story of the girl who was "just a little bit" pregnant.

There's a fact here, that the person was asleep. Therefore the skipper has at least one problem. Was it an unseen problem before boarding? does the person have narcolepsy? What is an error in pre-sailing discussions? Had the crew been adequately briefed? Did they not understand they had to stay awake? Is there a problem with watch-keeping skills (like what Kenomac and I mentioned about getting up and standing, etc.) ?

Once the skipper has the established fact of the watchkeeper asleep, IMO, no matter how scared or angry the skipper, the fact is that the ex-watchkeeper physiologically needs to rest before the confrontation occurs. Getting him or her all stirred up before sending them to sleep will interfere with their sleep, and therefore with all the other watches.

You can relieve them of duty, of course, but then that affects everybody else, too, plus the downside of having a grumpy crew member. Remember these guys are ~ 100 n. mi. offshore, it will be at least 24 hrs. to return to a port, to put him or her off the boat.

As skipper, part of your job is to handle this situation in such a way as to turn it into a plus for the whole crew, for the rest of the voyage, if possible. You might want to pair someone with such crew for part of their watch, or give them a watch that fits better with their biorhythms, as someone above reported doing.

It is only a problem to be solved. You might feel as if it were a character flaw, but in fact, it is a mystery, if you will, for you to sort out.

In all honesty, in all my not wanting to take on crew, I had never considered that I would pick someone inadequate, and nor would I have thought to ask about narcolepsy, which shows some lack of imagination on my part! However, if I believed it were a contest of captaincy, that they were not accepting that captain-authority of mine, I would take on the burden of getting them ashore, unless there were a pressing reason to continue, and then, that, too, would have to be weighed. (I would expect that the effect on the whole crew would not be good, they would resent the inconvenience of the longer voyage being imposed on them, and a boat is a small space in which to have unresolved conflict.)

El Pinguino had a problem on one of his long voyages (NZ to Chile) with some crew, perhaps he would care to tell us how he handled the problem, when putting back to land was not an option

Ann

I find someone who fails to stay awake on watch duty to be totally useless during the remainder of their time onboard. On both occasions, there was no confrontation, nothing said, my wife and I simply assumed all subsequent watches while the individuals then continued to spend most of their time onboard sleeping. I didn’t care what their reason was, medical or lack of responsibility; I didn’t want to hear any excuses.

That’s just the way it is on our boat, if you don’t like it..... Go sleep on someone else’s boat.

Note: My wife and I are both Registered Nurses used to working long shifts and taking our responsibilities to protect others rather seriously. We expect to be treated the same way by others.

[Jd1]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Maybe the boat was attacked by pigmy pirates with blow guns, and the poor guy got shot.

Thanks for that .... something else to worry about when out sailing

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

So, fatigue is the problem. With maybe dehydration, as well.

Yes, A64pilot, you're right, you do want to confirm where the boat is, and that all is well with her.

Preventing extreme fatigue is the primary duty of the shorthanded sailor, imo. And it is the duty of the skipper to have informed the crew of the necessity for effective mal de mer medication, or to provide it. Unfortunately, not much works --except the suppositories-- once the vomiting has begun.

Preventing seaskickness is only about a physiological issue. What is, imho, invalid, is to transform it into a machismo contest.

Ann

Crushed Zofran placed under the tongue works wonderful for nausea. Relief in 10-15 minutes.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Crushed Zofran placed under the tongue works wonderful for nausea. Relief in 10-15 minutes.

Interesting, I'll check local availability. Always good to have another arrow in that quiver. That's very quick relief.

Ann