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Old 14-11-2011, 16:31   #16
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Re: Asking Price vs Selling Price

The agreed upon price is not disclosed until the sale has been complete.

If the seller defaults on the sales agreement, the seller is liable for the buyer's expenses. Including the deposit, haul out, survey, etc.
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Old 14-11-2011, 16:32   #17
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Re: Asking Price vs Selling Price

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Originally Posted by Richard Jordan View Post
This is 100% false. I have never heard of ask price changed to the agreed price.
Maybe I'm using the wrong terms. However, why would the broker NOT change the price to the "agreed" price while awating the final inspection?

I'm not saying that they're changing the asking price to the price that they finalize on, and the boat is sold for. Even after the boat is under contract to be sold, it's still possible for the inspection and final negociating to change the price at that point. I see nothing that indicates that they change the asking price of the listing after the boat is sold.

Only the price that they place it under contract for.
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Old 14-11-2011, 16:33   #18
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Re: Asking Price vs Selling Price

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Originally Posted by Richard Jordan View Post
This is 100% false. I have never heard of ask price changed to the agreed price.

I'd never noticed that either.

As for buying boats, like any transaction both the seller and the buyer have to agree. There is no magic formula. And in buying boats your heart plays a big part. If you're happy with the price you got a good deal, if you're not happy don't buy the boat. There's usually another one somewhere.

If you want a good deal you have to know what you want. Unfortunately many entering the market have little idea of what they're looking for, and, on top of that, they don't trust brokers.
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Old 14-11-2011, 17:09   #19
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Re: Asking Price vs Selling Price

Well, I've never really worked with brokers much. I will tell you, be careful what you offer. You might get it. I followed a 1979 Irwin Citation on Yachtworld for two years myself. It started at $24,500 went to $20,500 went to $17,500 and then the Ad was gone. I called the last broker it was listed with and he said it went to charity. To my surprise, he told me which one. I offered the charity $8000, figuring they'd turn it down and I could keep on looking. They took it. I'm still fixing it and it's been two years. Launch is in 2013. I'm not patching it up. It is a premium rebuild and I'm taking my time. However, I like the fixing part just as much as the sailing part. Your patience may vary. The boat was worth $8000 to me. ( $11,000 with " shipping, handling " , and boat stands.)
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Old 14-11-2011, 17:48   #20
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Re: Asking Price vs Selling Price

I've got a cold, and I'm stuck here with my kleanex, so I guess I can add something to this in an unfocused kind of way. A thirty year old boat has every system at the end of it's useful life. Teak decks are shot, through hulls are gone, raw water engines are corroded and worn into junk. The port lights leak, the bedding is shot, the hull to deck joint leaks. The core is wet, the rigging needs replacing, all of it. Every band-aid on the boat has given up it's ghost. Even big things like keel bolts and sails are shot. This is the cheap boat, and it ain't cheap. It isn't even worth the survey cost. You need the experience to know just what you're getting into and understand the implications. You need the skills to do the work yourself and the drive to get the work done. The skills include fiberglass, bondo, painting, DC wiring, wood working, to name a few. You must be ready to learn new skills as well. When you're done, you will be able to tell Don Casy a thing or two. If you don't know who Don Casy is, you probably are in way over your head. You must understand that everything in your life will get in the way of getting that work done. The dentist, the vet, the car repairs, relationship maintenance, job. All of it. You will never get out of the boat, $ wise, the money and labor you put into it. Forget that idea right now. If you're still on board with this knowledge, then by all means, get the cheap boat. Do it with your eyes open and not in lala land. I have 30 years experiance in factory maintenance, and as many years as a motorcycle mechanic, under my belt. Even with this amount of experience, and, frankly I am good at this, it's a big, big job. So that's how you get a boat for 1/3 the asking price.
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Old 14-11-2011, 18:36   #21
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Re: Asking Price vs Selling Price

Quote:
Originally Posted by ViribusUnitis View Post
Maybe I'm using the wrong terms. However, why would the broker NOT change the price to the "agreed" price while awating the final inspection?
Related to this quote and similar comments, my broker definitely did not want to lower the price shown on YW. He thought lowering the visible price simply lowers expectations for the price of similar boats when they come up on the market. Also, just my guess here, is that since he was the buyers broker (mine) he certainly didn't want other buyers to find the deal, potentially through another broker. The listing broker was a very old school guy and probably just didn't think it through that "that web site thing" should be changed. After my deal closed the listing simply disappeared from YW without a trace. The displayed price never changed a nickle.


I have to agree with Fourtytwo's comments, and disagree with the idea that gazumping is alive and well in America (never has been). If the buyer and seller have signed a Purchase and Sale agreement the seller can not get out of it if a better offer comes along without potential high costs and legal hassles. The buyer, on the other hand, after an inspection can make up a laundry list of flaws and unreasonable make-good costs so unacceptable to the seller that the buyer basically gets out of the contract. Not honorable, but doable.
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Old 14-11-2011, 20:29   #22
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Re: Asking Price vs Selling Price

When you ask a question on a forum such as this you get opinions from many different people with many different backgrounds. They might all be right and they might all be wrong. You get to decide that for yourself. Here is my opinion. Research is your best friend when you look for a boat. If you know nothing about a boat then a Broker might also be a good idea. Whatever the case unless you know about all the systems on a boat a surveyor is also a good idea. You will need a surveyor for insurance purposes as well. Never use your Brokers surveyor. In my case I dislike Brokers and do not use them.
You spend lots of time online looking at the boat you want and others similar to it. You physically should look at these same type of boats in your local 1000 mile radius area, depending on how big the boat size of course you then reduce that 'local' area. You will eventually come up with a good price for the type of boat and equipment condition you wish. Then you figure out how much you can afford and what you are willing to spend. There is nothing wrong with offering less than the asking price. You are interested in what you want to spend not what the seller wants you to pay. If you are doing research and you see a boat has been on the market for a long period of time then it might be an indication you could offer less, all up to you.
There is no formula it is all up to what you can afford and what you want to spend. The selling price is generally not something easily found online but if you are really interested in some boat you can make some phone calls. Probably not something that will help you though. Your offer is normally based on asking price - time on market - deduction for repairs you think you need to make - cost to get the boat where you want it - your perception of how badly the seller needs to sell it (after you have talked to them on the phone) -+ your personal desire to have THIS BOAT. Regardless the economy when you are buying a boat your only interest is what you want. If you sign a contract before hauling and surveying make sure it gives you the option to back out if the boat does not survey at whatever amount you think it should survey at. Do not accept something that you do not want, ever. Brokers and surveyors will tell you you should do this and that and you have to do this or that and it just isn't the full truth. Always ask them why and then ask them to show you documentation to support what they say, not notional policies but hard facts.
Last comment is asking price versus fair market value. If you have 100 Beta boats all selling for $40K and 100 Alpha boats selling for $20k AND 100 Charlie boats selling for $20K and they are all the same basic trawler design you might think the fair market value for type Beta would be lower than $40K. However when you have a low turnover of some specific design boat fair market value might not be as relevant to owners selling that design of boat. With a small allotment of a particular design and owners who are ambivalent or not in a hurry to sell fair market value rises accordingly and breaks that design out of the basic type you think it might fit in. My point is you still need to do research so you have that type of information when you decide what you are willing to offer for a particular boat.
To recap: If you have technical marine knowledge and experience and can do your own research try not to use a broker. Always have boat surveyed prior to putting money on the table. Research the boat and owners prior to making an offer. You can review past owners on line for many documented vessels and even state titled vessels in many states. Learn things your surveyor should be looking for and pass that information on to him/her. If they are not interested find another surveyor. Avoid personal interest in sellers reasons for selling. Your interested in buying a boat for the price you want. Asking price, fair market value, other selling prices, etc, none of these matter. What matters is how much you want to spend and how little you can spend to buy your next boat. Don't rush, do research, and remember that while it may take longer than you want you can buy the boat you want for the price you want to pay.
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Old 17-11-2011, 01:08   #23
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Re: Asking Price vs Selling Price

What is a LOW BALL offer.many people have had boats for sale for 1 2 3 years with no offers.Thr I won't sell it for that rule doesn't apply anymore.Just make sure yor're reaady to buy went you make that kind of offer.
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Old 17-11-2011, 06:09   #24
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Re: Asking Price vs Selling Price

It's funny. In 2008 I Knew of a Catalina 30 for sale, I think an '87, nice boat. Asking price was $23K. I offered the Broker a low ball $12K. I didn't have the money anyway. I was countered with $17K, a fair price at the time, I thought. The yard eventually got it three years later. It had filled up with about 18 inches of water, ruined the interior, possibly the motor. Some guy bought it for $3500. The poor owner got nothing at all.
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Old 17-11-2011, 06:36   #25
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Re: Asking Price vs Selling Price

Curious why make an offer you can't back up?Is it entertainment or some type of excitment for you?
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Old 17-11-2011, 06:37   #26
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Re: Asking Price vs Selling Price

If you find a broker you're comfortable working with, he has access to YachtWorld's actual selling prices if he's signed up with them, and can request a printout of asking and selling prices for the past 12 months of sales for any given boat model, for example.
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Old 17-11-2011, 06:45   #27
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Re: Asking Price vs Selling Price

Find yourself a broker to work with that uses YW/Boats.com. Most all do. They can tell you what boats were originally listed at and what they sold for. It's all in the YW database, just us normal people don't have access to it. They can run reports by boat model, size, geographic area, whatever and for a given timeframe. So if you want to know what PS 37's sold for in the last two years in Florida, they can tell you. Then you have a good idea what to offer.
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Old 17-11-2011, 06:46   #28
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Re: Asking Price vs Selling Price

Ooops, seee Hud3 beat me to it.
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Old 17-11-2011, 12:16   #29
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Re: Asking Price vs Selling Price

Por supuesto, I have Soldboats access. It helps as a sanity check, but if the model is popular, you'll get a better valuation based on current market listings. If I am not that busy, usually I'll ping back a report to pm requests.
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Old 17-11-2011, 12:45   #30
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Re: Asking price VS selling price

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I'll confirm there are no rules as was my experience with my purchase of a 23 y/o boat in Aug. I'll also say YachtWorld is a fantastic resource overall, but all their content comes from the listing brokers. It was amazing to me that many boats have very meager content.

I looked pretty hard at 8 to 10 boats, then very seriously at 4, then made my offer on the winner. I can tell you almost none the original 8 - 10 had the current asking prices on Yachtworld. They had all been reduced over time, but YW wasn't kept up-to-date. The boat I settled on had been reduced just shy of 10%. I offered close to 20% less, and ended up about 15% less, so 25%ish off the YW price.

I didn't thin that was quite good enough so I was able to get a twist into the deal. The the seller, who I was talking with directly even though we both had brokers, was extremely confident everything worked as the boat was maintained in the highest order (and had a premium price compared to others, but was indeed a premium boat). So I had a sizable escrow in the deal that could be used to fix anything I found broken. On the delivery cruise from CT to RI (about 10 hours) I had a hired gun with me experienced with my brand of boat. We had very calm seas and no wind and motored the whole way. So we used the time to go through everything - not to look for broken stuff really - but for me to learn as much as I could about this boat from him. Well, there was some broken stuff including a flaky autopilot, very flaky wind instruments, and a few other things. They all got fixed/replaced out of the escrow. Truth is that I was blessed to have a very honorable seller. He was embarrassed by the flaws and paid the quotes provided by my yard without question.

It's all closed now, and of course other stuff breaks. But we all know that routine.

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It's not just yacht brokers. I saw a Cal 24 for sale on Craigslist. Here is the entire text of the ad, verbatim :

"Floats."
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