Are You Scared of Wood ?

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by CharlieCobra

You definitely have to be close to one of these old girls. Visiting every 3 or 4 months won't cut it. I agree with Cold Molded. It's the closest thing to FRP that you can get with a wood boat.

No, stitch and glue is the closest thing to FRP that you can get with a wood boat.

As for the longevity of the Constitution, those Josiah Humphries hulls were built from Live Oak, which is very difficult to work and extremely rare. That's why the Constitution is still floating.

[James S]

IMHO I don’t think the stitch and glue method results in a hull with as uniform strength and consistency...with cold mold it is truly seamless, like FG as well as being easy to have bilateral curves.
Don’t get me wrong....I like stitch and glue.

[jkleins]

I am still trying to get my mind around what it is that requires the increased maintenance. I understand the problem finding one without rot, etc. But if you had a good wood sailboat that had no rot and did all the usual things (paint, varnish) that you might have to do in an older boat of any construction, what is it that requires more maintenance then a fiberglass hull? Why would you not want to leave a wood boat for 3-4 months and would feel fine leaving an older fiberglass boat in the same situation?

Thanks,

Jim

[Stillraining]

Jim: They rot from the inside out not the outside in...If you could ventilate every nook and cranny of the boat and keep it dry then you theoretically could ..but it is very hard to do while trying to keep thieves out as well.

[jkleins]

Originally Posted by Stillraining

Jim: They rot from the inside out not the outside in...If you could ventilate every nook and cranny of the boat and keep it dry then you theoretically could ..but it is very hard to do while trying to keep thieves out as well.

So the hull actually takes time to maintain regularly. Do you have to paint it more frequently or just look at it/inspect it frequently? If you are talking about the interior it seems that many fiberglass hulls would have the same problem. I guess that is what I am trying to determine. Is it the "hull" of wood that takes the time or the wood interior/everything else that takes time. If it is not just the hull couldn't we be talking about most of the older fiberglass boats where the entire inside is made of wood? or are they less intensive to maintain for some reason?
The reason I am asking for specifics is I have heard this so much that I believe it (and it kept me from seriously looking at a boat I was interested in) but I can't tell why I believe it and that always bothers me.

Jim

[rustypirate]

Charlie, I love following your adventures with Oh Joy. Many of the comments you have made about care, maintenance, repair and knowing your boat remind me of my own project Hagane, and the lessons of wood are the same with steel.

You must care for it, and if you do, then it will last forever.

Here is a link to my project, and I think you will find our common ground....
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ane-33571.html

[James S]

I was thinking the same thing...the similarity to steel...funny enough!

[Stillraining]

I thought I worded that well enough but I will try harder...

1) Glass boats do have issues with interior wood as well...lots of bulkhead in FG are rotten in areas concealed to the eye..and many other in plain sight..it is just plywood after all.

2) What I was referring to regarding wooden boats rotting from the inside out was not referring to interior wood furnishings (anymore then a FG boat would have issues there)...but the actual frame work of the boat back in and or under areas inaccessible and hard to ventilate or maintain elimination of mold and or mildew formation..i.e...stearn and beneath cockpit areas..behind cabinetry and other boxed in areas.

Just using a boat constantly helps circulate air and dispels a lot of these problems in any boat and your always poking around in areas as well keeping a Handel on things...but your question was leaving a boat for 2 or 3 months...this will be a bigger negative to a Woodie then a plastic boat..

Hope that helps.

[Albro359]

The water that rots wooden boats is fresh water not salt.
My boat is wooden built in 1974 and the hull is still strong.
When it was built, all the interior of the hull was "painted" with 5 coats of Everdure - a thin epoxy that saturates the wood....the outside of the hull is sheathed with E-glass and painted with epoxy based paint....I have no problems with rot in the hull.

Where I did have rot problems was in the deck....ply covered with teak and a million small fasteners.

I've ripped all that off, replaced the rotten ply deck pieces and glassed it...over the gunwales.... its now completely watertight.

I love wooden boats...working with wood is a lot easier than GRP.

Rot problems are not confined to wood...any GRP boat that has cored decks / hull will rot from the inside if water gets in where fittings are placed...then you have a real mess to clear up.

As for leaving aboat for 3 to 4 months...why would leaving a wooden boat be any different to a GRP boat...unless the wood was completely unprotected?

Even then, if fresh water getting into the bilge (throught the mast or whatever) worries you...put a couple of pounds of salt in the bilge (pickle it) before you leave....that will ensure the water in there is salt water.

Happy Sailing !
Cheers
Alan

[jkleins]

I think you were clear. We just had two threads going. One about not visiting a boat and one about increased routine maintenance of wood. I can certainly understand that a boat that is used regularly would be better off then the one closed up and left to mildew. I am just trying to figure out what "maintenance" people are talking about that the wood boats require that the fiberglass boats don't.
I can see if rot is found that it would take work to fix it but is new rot found often in boats that don't have rot to start with? Do wood boat owners have to do more to check the interior of boat and hull for rot then do owners of other types of boats on a regular basis?
I am just wondering if people are equating the fact that wood boats may have more problems due to poor care with them having increased maintenance needs. This would certainly be true if you were talking about the entire population of wood boats. But if we talk about an individual boat I am thinking a maintenance schedule would be very similar to an older fiberglass boat if you start out without problems.
So I guess my question is "Is there really more maintenance required on wood hulls or is it just more likely that a problem will be found that will require repair if the maintenance is poorly done?
Getting back to the thread topic, in the first case I would be more scared of wood then in the second.

Jim

[CharlieCobra]

Jim,

This is your answer:

"Is there really more maintenance required on wood hulls or is it just more likely that a problem will be found that will require repair if the maintenance is poorly done?"

That's the biggest issue. You either get lucky and buy a boat someone just restored and hope they got it all and did a good job or ya restore one yourself and know it's right. From then on, maintenance isn't that bad on a woodie.

[Not Sure]

Speaking as a carpenter for 25+ years time, you would be wise to shy away from old wooden boats. Unless one is absolutely positive of the condition and care that the particular wood boat has had during its lifetime, it is next to impossible to fully ascertain the state of a wooden boat until you tear into it, and by that time you've usually already bought it.

The difference between wood and fiberglass is that it's relatively easy to hide the true condition of a poor wooden boat, while it's not so easy to hide the true condition of a poor fiberglass boat. I love wood. I work with wood. I can make anything out of wood. But when it comes to boats, fiberglass hulls seem to be the way to go. Save the woodwork for the deck and cabin interior. Boats are enough of a money pit already without introducing the problems inherent with wood hull construction into the mix. There's a good reason why modern boatbuilders switched to fiberglass, etc.

Now, a _new_ wooden boat? That's a different story entirely. But even then, I would suggest that the owner either be a carpenter or have the wherewithal to put one on the payroll, or before too long the wood boat will be resembling the characteristics of a floating log....waterlogged and rotting away, with the amount of work required to properly fix the vessel quickly overcoming the time and resources of the owner.

The earth has had 4 million years to figure out how to degrade wood. Fiberglass, not so much. And yes, I wish it was otherwise.

[Curmudgeon]

As others have noted, they are modern methods of protecting wood that let you have the best of both worlds. Wodd is lighter, stronger and prettier than fiberglass. There are sealers, epoxies and other means of treating a wood hull so that it is no more susceptible to deterioration than a fiberglass hull.

Having said that, I predict that someday the very best hulls will be made from laminated kevlar or similar materials. These materials will replace both wood and fiberglass, just as carbon fiber is slowly replacing aluminum for spars.

[Pelagic]

I agree with your prediction Curmudgeon….

Whatever the substrate that has been used in the past for the hull and structural cabin, (be it … wood/metal/Ferro) ... it is now treated with plastic/polymer type finishes to protect is from the elements.

The chronic problem that all those materials have with the final coating is preparation and bonding.

Advances in composites will make that build material choice obsolete. (Except for the pure traditionalist)

[CharlieCobra]

Wood is expensive. It was speculated that the cost to build Oh Joy today would be 350K. That's a bunch of money, at least to me. I can believe it. Another thing is, unless you trip across a source by luck, there's no way to get the quality of old growth wood that the older boats like Oh Joy have in them.

I had a very knowledgeable sailor be confused trying to figure out the wood on Oh Joy's house. he'd never seen Mahogany with grain that straight. Just try finding a piece of old growth Honduran out there that comes close to matching whats on the boat now.

Much less a 35' long piece of deep red Honduran for the bulwark.