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Old 12-04-2013, 10:35   #211
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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Not really, now I know what happens if you violate the 90-day rule!
I'd better brush up on me German then.
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Old 12-04-2013, 10:59   #212
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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There is several EU countries wich issues one year visa's.
I came over this site , when googling for answers.
How to (Legally) Stay in Europe for More Than 90 Days | Nomadic Matt's Travel Site
Here you go ... good practical info, as always YMMV ...
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Old 12-04-2013, 12:10   #213
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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Here you go ... good practical info, as always YMMV ...
Other than applying for a year's visa, most of his ideas are either lame or could lose you all European visitation privileges. They aren't so practical for cruisers.

I don't really see anything new there.
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Old 12-04-2013, 12:36   #214
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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Other than applying for a year's visa ...
This is the main take away ... one needs to get 1 year visa from one of more relaxed EU countries to extend their travel/stay privilege in the zone.

Until one comprehends this and then starts making arrangements to comply with whatever are the local visa requirements ... there is not much else one can do legally after overstaying the 90 days.

It is really that simple ... yes, it requires planning and commitment, but EU situation is not that different than visiting any other place for an extended period of time.
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Old 12-04-2013, 12:50   #215
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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Other than applying for a year's visa, most of his ideas are either lame or could lose you all European visitation privileges. They aren't so practical for cruisers.

I don't really see anything new there.

No , not too much news here , but Matt lays out the rules in an easy understandable way.
AND he does not reccomend overstaying your visa, actually he does the oposite.

But.. As he points out, IF you manage to score a long term visa (c-card/d-card or blue-card) in.. lets say Italy. Then you can travel the rest of EU a total of 2x90 days + 180 days in Italy + the non schengen countries, albeit with a bit of planning. Without a schengen PASSPORT , you can still not move freely in all scengen countries.

But you will need a reason for your visit. Family seems to be the easiest way, but school should work too. Anyone who has or wants a degree in history, arceology or politics should be able to find something to study in one of the mediterranian countries.

This link is the real gem on matt's site: http://ec.europa.eu/immigration/tab2...&language=7$en

I do agree that the schengen VISA rules is too restrictive , and worst of all, because of it , the national VISA's has become harder to get.

I'm lucky to be from Norway , a schengen , but non EU country.
I can stay in EU as long as I want , and getting a certificate of residence in spain was just a formality for me.

.manitu
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Old 12-04-2013, 13:13   #216
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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If it is common and sufficient in other countries for visa/residency purpose, why don't you try there first. There is really no purpose in complaining about local requirements, you will accomplish more by finding the ways to comply.
I have done that in other countries. Long stay visa was exceptionally easy to obtain in Australia and very easy to obtain in Turkey. This thread is about what the OP asked. Seems a lot of people think that because I answered positively to his question (Yes, the rules are off-putting) that I am whining (or whinging or winging as the Brits and Ozzies use the term). My husband and I have already made our plans for the rest of our time in the Med so I am not looking for ways to get around the local requirements, although others have made many suggestions in this thread. I am not whining; just stating the situation as I see it and experience it. Hey, it's their country (actually supposed to be countries but want to be treated as one country in this regard) so they can do whatever they want and we will comply to their laws. Doesn't mean we have to like it; just that we comply.

Again, IMHO, American sailors would enjoy the Med experience more if they fly over and charter numerous times rather than sailing across.....unless they want to go to Turkey and stay there with a very easily obtainable long-stay visa. Or unless they like cold weather and want to go to England for winter.

Enough on this topic. It has gotten quite tedious.

Judy
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Old 12-04-2013, 13:26   #217
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

I think the discussion here points out how the Schengen agreement made life easier for Europeans to move around and work in different European countries.

It also made it easier for Americans who are there in the short term (currency, no border checks). At the same time, it has made it more difficult for Americans who would like to stay longer. Instead of a 90-day limit per country, it's now essentially a 90-day limit for Europe. The workarounds are fairly inconvenient.

It certainly isn't easy for American cruisers like Judy to fit Western Europe into her plans, unless she can do it in a 90-day window.
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Old 12-04-2013, 13:28   #218
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

One last thing:
Healthcare for foreigners is NOT free in schengen. If you come from a schengen country wich has free/cheap healthcare you must get a european health card issued from your home country. This gives you the same rights as in your home country , wich actually pays the bill.

If you are from a non-schengen country you MUST have health insurance.

.manitu
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Old 12-04-2013, 13:55   #219
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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Yeah.

Me grandad had a mixed war - evacuated the family (inc. me father) to the UK, but came back for a visit . and got stuck when the Jerries arrived. Did a stint in the German Merchant "Navy" locally on the supply boats to and from France, not quite a volunteer but not exactly forced labour either ......got deported to Germany for "Resistance Against the 3rd Reich", apparently "liberating" petrol was involved and given not easy to smuggle petrol through checkpoints no doubt a little bit of freemarket co-operation with the Jerrries was involved on that, as well as for goods brought over from France on the German Supply boats ...of course the risk not just from the Germans, got machine gunned a few times by aircraft (Achtung! Spitfire!! - the irony being that at the time his Wife was in a factory making bullets in England )........he did survive his trip to Germany, last seen in the UK just after the war - a day later Special Branch (the UK FBI?) came looking for him, never found out exactly what for - but given they would have been fairly busy at that time with lots of Nazi related stuff must have been good . I like to think he sold a division of US tanks to the Russians or summit (he was last seen wearing US Army clobber).

I later had a good german mate (in Thailand), after a few years he mentioned his grandfather had been stationed here during the war as a Harbourmaster - so a good chance his grandad helped deport mine! Small world .

Locally a bit of a mixed story for the occupation - lots of holding nose and getting by for the locals (5 years - we held out longer than Berlin!, albeit only by 1 day)......end of the war our Civilian leaders got given medals, it was either that or hang 'em! (To be fair, lots of sh#tty decisions to make or endorse - the alternative being direct German Military rule which would have been worse).

The CI were demilaterized by the English - except they forgot to tell the Germans! , so we got machine gunned and bombed a few times (and some deaths )......it was actually the US ambassador to the UK who got in contact with Berlin to give the news! By then many of the population had left for the UK, including those signing up for the armed forces (conscription did not apply here - all volunteers).....

.....the people who didn't get out included "foreigners" who the UK did not allow in, folks who had already escaped the Nazi's and freinds - including Spanish Republicans. Not all of them survived that (SFA the locals could do ), but some did (on Alderney there was a Concentration / work camp - no gas chambers, but not many survivors either) - me father used to work with some after the war. A couple of years back one of them was in a line up as part of a Royal Visit (some minor freeloader with a title) - when he was introduced and his brief story mentioned to the Royal (surviving the Alderney Concentration camp) he was asked "oh, what was that like?" - he answer was "how the f#ck do you think it was? ".

Oh, and whilst on a potted history - a fella escaped to England on a small rowing boat (10 foot), that's a couple of hundred miles from here accross the English Channel, a risky enough thing with just the weather and sea to cope with let alone in wartime!....when he arrived he volunteered for the Army.......and the English Govt sent him a bill for the import tax on the boat (no sh#t!).

My view comes from the fact that if a deal had been done earlier the Germans would never have bothered with France let alone us, British Empire would have survived (staggered on!) and likely the Russians would now be speaking German. or English - it's not as if the original premise for the war (invasion and occupation of Poland) survived later reality anyway, just that the country doing the occupying changed. Given the west could do a deal with the devil in Stalin could have done one with Hitler and as they were capitalists likely the edges would have come off their ideology a lot sooner than it did with the Communists.....and the Americans could have carried on selling the Nazis Coca Cola after the Battle of Britain, as well as during it...........

Anyway, another off topic long ramble by DOJ .
Off topic, but interesting! The chap with the rowboat -- a local hero -- had an outboard, but I'm not sure it lasted the whole way . . . still an extremely impressive feat of seamanship to get across the Channel in a small open boat -- it's not exactly the most benign piece of water in the world . . .

I love WWII history and always visit relevant museums wherever I go. The best ones are in Russia, logically, since most of the fighting took place there. But one of my most favorite ones in the West is the tunnel-museum on Jersey. This is unique because the Channel Islands were captured from the Germans with very little fighting, compared to other places, and a great volume of materiel and artifacts and buildings were left astonishingly intact. This museum -- and David can obviously tell you all a lot more about it than I can -- is built in a complex of tunnels which were used as an underground hospital by the Nazis, and which was captured intact including all the furniture and equipment. Other artifacts were brought from all around Jersey, and voila -- an amazing picture of how the Germans and Jerseymen lived during the occupation. They even have an intact Enigma machine in perfect condition. And a collection of Nazi motorcycles.

Highly recommended for cruisers who find themselves in the area!
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Old 12-04-2013, 14:09   #220
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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Originally Posted by manitu View Post
One last thing:
Healthcare for foreigners is NOT free in schengen. If you come from a schengen country wich has free/cheap healthcare you must get a european health card issued from your home country. This gives you the same rights as in your home country , wich actually pays the bill.

If you are from a non-schengen country you MUST have health insurance.

.manitu
I'm not sure if you "MUST" have health insurance. In the UK, urgent care of any kind is given out free of charge and no questions asked. If you plan to have a liver transplant during a port call, then of course, that's a different matter. I don't know about other EU countries.

A quick Google confirms that this is not just practice, but the official policy of the NHS in the UK:

"Emergency treatment

Regardless of how long you’re staying or your nationality, you’re entitled to free emergency NHS treatment from:
a primary care practice, such as a GP surgery
an A&E department
an NHS walk-in centre"

Am I entitled to NHS treatment when I visit England? - Health questions - NHS Choices

You have to pay if you are treated as an in-patient (ibid), that is, if whatever happens to you is so bad, that you end up hospitalized for it. But not for walk-in, walk-out emergency care, which is simply free.

I think it might in some cases be reasonable to self-insure for that, depending on your particular financial situation, and how far away your main health care system is,and how healthy you are.

I would wildly guess that other European countries have similar situations.
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Old 12-04-2013, 14:31   #221
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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Originally Posted by manitu View Post
But.. As he points out, IF you manage to score a long term visa (c-card/d-card or blue-card) in.. lets say Italy. Then you can travel the rest of EU a total of 2x90 days + 180 days in Italy + the non schengen countries, albeit with a bit of planning. Without a schengen PASSPORT , you can still not move freely in all scengen countries.
Oh, but you can move freely in the whole Schengen area. There is nothing stopping you from doing that.
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Old 12-04-2013, 15:01   #222
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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Originally Posted by Richard_W View Post
This is the main take away ... one needs to get 1 year visa from one of more relaxed EU countries to extend their travel/stay privilege in the zone.

Until one comprehends this and then starts making arrangements to comply with whatever are the local visa requirements ... there is not much else one can do legally after overstaying the 90 days.

It is really that simple ... yes, it requires planning and commitment, but EU situation is not that different than visiting any other place for an extended period of time.
Umm, a one-year visa doesn't trump the 90-in-180 rule. For example, :

"Please be informed that even with a one-year multiple-entry visa, the applicant cannot stay in the Schengen area more than 90 days within any 6-month period."

Multiple Entry Visas

You need a residence permit to get out of the 90-in-180 rule which is, after all, intended to prevent unregistered residency. If you are going to be in the Schengen area for a majority of the time during a year (which they arbitrarily define as more than 90 in 180), then you are expected to sign up, pay taxes, join the local health care system, and otherwise be a real resident. That's the whole issue here, and why the regime is so hard for cruisers wanting to live a vagabond life. It's Catch 22, because to get the residence permit, you need a fixed place of abode, but cruising is all about not having any fixed place of abode. They should offer a "cruisers' visa"
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Old 12-04-2013, 15:32   #223
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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This museum -- and David can obviously tell you all a lot more about it than I can -- is built in a complex of tunnels which were used as an underground hospital by the Nazis, and which was captured intact including all the furniture and equipment.
I went inside once as a kid. and once twenty odd years ago to get me leg over in the carpark . One of those things that yer never go to as a local because it is always there - and "miles away" (it's an island thing - we are 9 x 5 in miles ). There is now an open top tour bus that goes there from the bus station 2 minutes walk away from the visitors Marina.

But plenty of other bunkers around, some open to the public all year round - some only a few times a year. Apparently half the concrete that went into the Atlantic Wall got poured into the Channel Islands - therefore sea rises from Global warming not such a concern for us .........at least not for the next 1000 years .

There is reputed to be a ghost of a German Soldier wandering around the place and in the carpark, well been mentioned a couple of times in books about the place - so must be true .

Funnily enough me father has got well into Jersey WWII history in recent years, only near 80 so was a kid during the war (and got evacuated to England during the occupation - smuggling in duty free ciggies in his gas mask case ) - a very level headed no nonsense sort of bloke , but he is convinced the ghost story is true ......I have tried to get him up there to disprove it by me bringing a Ouiji board to raise him from the other side but he point blank refuses to go up in the dead of night ......the gag is that if I can get him up there that a mate knocks on the car window dressed as a German soldier .

I also like a bit of history myself - the military graveyards in Northern France (WWI & WWII) are amazing for the sheer scale of them and number and well worth a look as both a reminder of what us Europeans can get up to and as a warning for the future........just add politics and guns and we make the NRA etc look like Liberals .
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Old 12-04-2013, 16:19   #224
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There is several EU countries wich issues one year visa's.
Icame over this site , when googling for answers.
How to (Legally) Stay in Europe for More Than 90 Days | Nomadic Matt's Travel Site

.manitu
Yes read through it and actually see that non are really suitable. France might be the best bet but I've yet to hear first hand accounts from any cruises using a French long term stay visa.

Dave
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Old 12-04-2013, 16:22   #225
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One last thing:
Healthcare for foreigners is NOT free in schengen. If you come from a schengen country wich has free/cheap healthcare you must get a european health card issued from your home country. This gives you the same rights as in your home country , wich actually pays the bill.

If you are from a non-schengen country you MUST have health insurance.

.manitu
This only applies to long stay national visas

Dave
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