Are you put off sailing in the EU?

[svBeBe]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

The simple issue is that there is no demand. Hence getting all the Schengen countries to agree to a extended visa, that would be used by a very small few, is very unlikely.



Is it a nuisance, yes, "off-putting" well thats a personal perspective , I certainly wouldn't let it deter me from seeing one of most fabulous cruising areas in the world. I mean it can be done legally and many are so doing.

Its entirely worth the effort.

dave

Totally agree with you. There are so many historical sites and cultures to visit. It should not be missed. But in hindsight I would not cruise the Med in my own boat. Fly over and charter in various countries. That, IMHO, is a much better way to see the Med. And can be done spread out over several years and never have to deal with the 90-day visa issue.

Judy

[goboatingnow]

Just an example of how it can be done.

Scenario
You arrive in the western Med at the start of a the summer season , having crossed the atlantic in late spring early summer, you spend 3 months cruising eastwards , You visit Croatia and overwinter in Turkey , as an extended visa is easy. Turkey is a nice low cost option anyway. so you arrive Turkey say late September, all Schengen legal.

( You could give yourself 2 x 3 months contiguous periods if you and your crew could fly in in say February to briefly start the 6 month clock, expensive but it buys you an extra 2-3 months , ie 5-6 months ) .

Four - five months later you are in the early spring, make a single say trip to the schengen area, in say February( fly to Greece, Malta etc for a day or two) , now you can cruise say April,May , June , then one day outside Schengen ( cheapo Ryanair day trip to shop in London), Then renter the Schengen area and continue cruising the for another three months , to September.

Then either Morocco, and then onwards to the Canaries and across the Atlantic in January

( Id actually quite happily recommend an overstay in the Canaries if arriving and leaving by boat. )

With the expenditure of some cash, its possible to get 6 months together out of the 12, every year.

[Richard_W]

Originally Posted by svBeBe

A marina address is not a floating address. That marina doesn't move. It is no different than renting an apartment or a house. The contract states that you have paid for that address for a specific period, which would be the period of the visa. You are not required to spend 24/7 in a rental house; nor are you required to be berthed 24/7. But that address remains yours and where you can be contacted for the duration period of that contract/visa. It really is simple and is common in other countries.

If it is common and sufficient in other countries for visa/residency purpose, why don't you try there first. There is really no purpose in complaining about local requirements, you will accomplish more by finding the ways to comply.

[goboatingnow]

Fly over and charter in various countries. That, IMHO, is a much better way to see the Med. And can be done spread out over several years and never have to deal with the 90-day visa issue.

Other then the cost, and in practice you could just bring your own yacht. Whats the difference, sail over, get 6 months sailing in12, leave the boat fly home, do this for a few years, sail back. save a bucket on charters. ( not to mention the difficulty in covering ground in a charter boat).

I dont think chartering holds candle really .

dave

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

I think likely only for the Eurozone countries, he who pays the piper etc..........Greater Germany? / The 4th Reich? .

On a completely unrelated (to sailing) note , I see that Belgians have recently been complaining about the Germans re-introducing their policy of Untermenschen working in factories on slave wages. I am sure the Germans have plans to counter that criticism - probably take them under a week. again .

We live in interesting times........

I take it Germany wants to follow the UK with Labour's introduction of the minimum wage...
Don L.... the point I was trying to make is... a US citizen living in Vermont can drive freely all over the country on a Vermont licience.. however should that citizen decide to move their residence to NC they have to re-register their car.. change their drivers licence, register locally for State taxes etc... that's what the EU is like now for its citizens that's why I have Portuguese residency... after so long living here even we have to move back home or do what I have done...
Just apply US State logic to the EU equation...

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by svBeBe

Your logic totally escapes me. Did not suggest in any manner that legislation should be written regarding 60k or any other monetary amount. Did suggest that a method should be implemented to allow for extended Schengen visa. And I said nothing about not paying taxes in the USA. We most certainly do pay taxes in the USA for all income annually; but our money is spent outside the USA in whatever locality we are cruising. Like 99.99999% of all cruisers we have a fixed address for legal and residential purposes and we pay taxes based upon that residence address to our home country. Again, your logic totally makes no sense to me.

As to obtaining a visa in any EU member country for a year, we have already tried that at an Italian consulate. This has been discussed previously. The Italian consulate advised that a marina address would not be allowed. We would have to pay for both a marina and for a land home in order to be considered for a visa longer than 90 days. That is cost prohibitive. Supposedly, one can obtain an extended visa if berthed in a marina in France but that has been argued as not possibly by others more familiar with France.

Again, the OP inquired if anyone had found the Schengen rules in the EU to be off-putting to sailing the Med. I have. Others have differing opinions but I am entitled to mine just as much as anyone else is entitled to theirs.

Judy

P.S. How is it possible to spend 60k USD in Turkey? Very easily! Marinas, fuel, food, restaurants, inland trips, hotels, rental cars, domestic flights, boat parts, bimini replacement, routine haul-outs, shade awning construction, gifts & souvenirs, clothes, buses, taxis, bars, etc., etc.,etc.

Your contribution here is a valuable perspective. I didn't mean to offend. I agree that it would be nice if there were some workaround for cruisers, but I'm also mindful that the world doesn't revolve around Americans, and visa policies are a bit more complicated because of social policies than vacationers, tourists, and cruisers tend to realize.

As far spending 60K in Turkey, $5K a month is a pretty good amount of local spending for a boater. My understanding has been that living in Turkey was rather inexpensive, particularly without having to pay rent. So I was surprised by that figure - it sounds more like what I would expect in Western Europe than Turkey. Others here have pointed out how inexpensive even Western Europe can be.

The Western Med isn't lacking in well-off boaters dropping a lot of cash at local marinas. That's probably why they aren't so worried.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I take it Germany wants to follow the UK with Labour's introduction of the minimum wage...

Germany creating "mini-jobs" for 3 or 4 Euros an hour - with no social benefits.....designed for foreigners (Untermenschen?)

BBC News - Belgium protests over German low pay in EU complaint

"Work makes you Free".......as they say in Germany .

And just to make clear, despite my comments in this thread am very pro EU - nonetheless do recognise it's faults and that it could go very badly . I also quite like the Germans , certainly if they ever march again I will be backing them - nice uniforms also, well they did have last time .....and methinks Britain backed the wrong side that time as well......

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Ill always respect you in the morning , Nick !!

what I mean is to throw stones you need to live in the glasshouse

Dave

What does that have to do with me listing non-EU countries in the Med that can be visited by US cruisers? I'd say you must be using something potent to make that connection; I still don't see it

As to comment on EU regulations and policies: you (or more accurately, "Brussels") better listen to comments from people that do not live there as they have not been doing very well on their own! I mean, there was a reason that I left 10 years ago and when I look now I see that I was right and it has become much worse. From Holland alone, 400 citizens are emigrating each day (and they are the ones that can afford it and take their money with them!)

[Richard_W]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

... I left 10 years ago and when I look now I see that I was right and it has become much worse. From Holland alone, 400 citizens are emigrating each day (and they are the ones that can afford it and take their money with them!)

You can say this about the entire western civilization ... it is in its decline phase now ... unfortunately. Game of Life ... in practice!

Ref: Conway's Game of Life - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

What does that have to do with me listing non-EU countries in the Med that can be visited by US cruisers? I'd say you must be using something potent to make that connection; I still don't see it

As to comment on EU regulations and policies: you (or more accurately, "Brussels") better listen to comments from people that do not live there as they have not been doing very well on their own! I mean, there was a reason that I left 10 years ago and when I look now I see that I was right and it has become much worse. From Holland alone, 400 citizens are emigrating each day (and they are the ones that can afford it and take their money with them!)

Yes it's the 2nd paragraph I was referring to. No representation without taxation. !!!

Dave

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

On a completely unrelated (to sailing) note , I see that Belgians have recently been complaining about the Germans re-introducing their policy of Untermenschen working in factories on slave wages. I am sure the Germans have plans to counter that criticism - probably take them under a week. again

There are not Belgians. We've know that since the beginning of the last century :-) The current prime minister is a bot slow thinking (he's an old fashioned italian socialist after all) and doesn't realise he is going to go down in history as the last prime minister, the one that finally ended the worst joke the Brits ever played on the Low Countries...

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

I also quite like the Germans , certainly if they ever march again I will be backing them - nice uniforms also, well they did have last time .....and methinks Britain backed the wrong side that time as well......

Don't you live in that part of Britain that actually got to "enjoy" being ruled by the Germans the last time?
Just happend to download thefirst episode from Series 8 of Coast. Interesting things about the Channel Islands under the Germans. Nice sailboat in it too...

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

Don't you live in that part of Britain that actually got to "enjoy" being ruled by the Germans the last time?
Just happend to download thefirst episode from Series 8 of Coast. Interesting things about the Channel Islands under the Germans. Nice sailboat in it too...

Yeah.

Me grandad had a mixed war - evacuated the family (inc. me father) to the UK, but came back for a visit . and got stuck when the Jerries arrived. Did a stint in the German Merchant "Navy" locally on the supply boats to and from France, not quite a volunteer but not exactly forced labour either ......got deported to Germany for "Resistance Against the 3rd Reich", apparently "liberating" petrol was involved and given not easy to smuggle petrol through checkpoints no doubt a little bit of freemarket co-operation with the Jerrries was involved on that, as well as for goods brought over from France on the German Supply boats ...of course the risk not just from the Germans, got machine gunned a few times by aircraft (Achtung! Spitfire!! - the irony being that at the time his Wife was in a factory making bullets in England )........he did survive his trip to Germany, last seen in the UK just after the war - a day later Special Branch (the UK FBI?) came looking for him, never found out exactly what for - but given they would have been fairly busy at that time with lots of Nazi related stuff must have been good . I like to think he sold a division of US tanks to the Russians or summit (he was last seen wearing US Army clobber).

I later had a good german mate (in Thailand), after a few years he mentioned his grandfather had been stationed here during the war as a Harbourmaster - so a good chance his grandad helped deport mine! Small world .

Locally a bit of a mixed story for the occupation - lots of holding nose and getting by for the locals (5 years - we held out longer than Berlin!, albeit only by 1 day)......end of the war our Civilian leaders got given medals, it was either that or hang 'em! (To be fair, lots of sh#tty decisions to make or endorse - the alternative being direct German Military rule which would have been worse).

The CI were demilaterized by the English - except they forgot to tell the Germans! , so we got machine gunned and bombed a few times (and some deaths )......it was actually the US ambassador to the UK who got in contact with Berlin to give the news! By then many of the population had left for the UK, including those signing up for the armed forces (conscription did not apply here - all volunteers).....

.....the people who didn't get out included "foreigners" who the UK did not allow in, folks who had already escaped the Nazi's and freinds - including Spanish Republicans. Not all of them survived that (SFA the locals could do ), but some did (on Alderney there was a Concentration / work camp - no gas chambers, but not many survivors either) - me father used to work with some after the war. A couple of years back one of them was in a line up as part of a Royal Visit (some minor freeloader with a title) - when he was introduced and his brief story mentioned to the Royal (surviving the Alderney Concentration camp) he was asked "oh, what was that like?" - he answer was "how the f#ck do you think it was? ".

Oh, and whilst on a potted history - a fella escaped to England on a small rowing boat (10 foot), that's a couple of hundred miles from here accross the English Channel, a risky enough thing with just the weather and sea to cope with let alone in wartime!....when he arrived he volunteered for the Army.......and the English Govt sent him a bill for the import tax on the boat (no sh#t!).

My view comes from the fact that if a deal had been done earlier the Germans would never have bothered with France let alone us, British Empire would have survived (staggered on!) and likely the Russians would now be speaking German. or English - it's not as if the original premise for the war (invasion and occupation of Poland) survived later reality anyway, just that the country doing the occupying changed. Given the west could do a deal with the devil in Stalin could have done one with Hitler and as they were capitalists likely the edges would have come off their ideology a lot sooner than it did with the Communists.....and the Americans could have carried on selling the Nazis Coca Cola after the Battle of Britain, as well as during it...........

Anyway, another off topic long ramble by DOJ .

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Anyway, another off topic long ramble by DOJ .

Not really, now I know what happens if you violate the 90-day rule!

[manitu]

There is several EU countries wich issues one year visa's.
Icame over this site , when googling for answers.
How to (Legally) Stay in Europe for More Than 90 Days | Nomadic Matt's Travel Site

.manitu