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Old 11-04-2013, 09:40   #181
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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If I fly into NY with a 90 day visa I can just drive into Vermont or Virginia and have 90 days there... then PA.. NC.. SC...
****... so many fresh starts....
Why go home...

I don't get your point. Those are all different areas of 1 country. The USA doesn't care if you spend 90 days in Canada or Mexico prior to coming to the USA.

I started a thread asking the same basic topic about people cruising the USA, I don't recall it getting as much response so I don't know if it less trouble than the EU or not. But if so that would be a different topic.
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:07   #182
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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But I just can not see why Italy would care about me spending 90-days cruising there just because I had just spent 90-days cruising France. This to me me is the mystery. if a country wants to limit my time there that is their right, but applying that to a different country is just a really weird.
It's weird but is not. You either use a broad 90 day Schengen travel privilege extended to US citizens (it is not a visa), or apply for a longer stay visa to a particular EU country ... again, requires planing, purpose, and commitment.

In the old days before EU/Schengen, you would had to apply for visa to every country you planned to visit. Looks to me that the current model is much more convenient for the vast majority of tourist and sailors.
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:58   #183
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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But I just can not see why Italy would care about me spending 90-days cruising there just because I had just spent 90-days cruising France. This to me me is the mystery. if a country wants to limit my time there that is their right, but applying that to a different country is just a really weird.
Don L you persist in ignoring the European Union ( notice the word Union). you are dealing with in effect a federation, European Law just like Federal law, in general trumps local law. you cannot just choose to ignore this.

Every day in the EU , I am subject to European law, not local law. Ask anyone round here.

So all over the EU ( and further into the EEFTA) "system" wide rules apply.

Schengen came into being , not becuase of the issue of individual visas ( as mentioned by Richard_W) but because a " common or free travel areas exists amongst these countries. In the EU specifically , I as a EU citizen, an entitled to move , work and live as I like within the Union. Hence there are no internal borders between such "regions". Hence the "border" is in effect the circumference of the Schengen Area. There is for the purposes of tourists no "countries".

Dave

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Old 11-04-2013, 11:05   #184
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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I started a thread asking the same basic topic about people cruising the USA, I don't recall it getting as much response so I don't know if it less trouble than the EU or not. But if so that would be a different topic.
The general feedback is the US is far more rigid and bureaucracy , certainly there violation your 90 days tourist visa could see you jailed, at least in the EU , thats not going to happen.

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Old 11-04-2013, 11:31   #185
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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I would be happy to pay a hefty fee and do all the paperwork if it were possible to obtain an extended Schengen visa.
I am sure that some folks do get used to money being able to buy their way to conveniance, but things don't always work that way. This is one of them.

For 500 million people the EU works very well for travel purposes (at least ). A few thousand(?) foreigners being inconvenianced is a price I am sure most feel worth paying........

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Tourists like us are bringing in new money to that local economy. We are taking roughly 57k USD out of the USA and spending that locally in whatever country we are cruising;
As said before, even a few thousand doing that is economically insignificant, and likely would not even cover the cost of enforcement for the few thousand that would truly benefit let alone for those who would use an extended schengen visa as a way of staying pretty much permanently in the EU without becoming tax paying residents (as GBN has pretty much said, unless you coming and going via an airport then enforcement pretty low - for all it's shortcomings the EU is not a Police State , so we don't have a squillion Agencies keeping us "safe" on a daily basis)...............Now, if you could persuade half a million of your fellow Americans to come over for 90 day plus extended visits spending that sort of money every year then the EU might listen a bit more. Might .

In regard to North Africa not being safe for Americans, that more to do with the USA than the EU (the USA actually has gunboats!) - the EU simply has time and a willingness to share economic prosperity (present difficulties excepted!) with countries on it's doorstep and that likely will also benefit Americans on boats......just not yet .
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:49   #186
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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I sympathize with svBeBe, but in the big scheme of things, $60K per year (how is that even possible in Turkey?) isn't worth rewriting all the EU immigration laws. Do you know what it costs to write legislation? Hint: $60K per year isn't enough. Any legislation you created for cruisers would be exploited by whoever could use it to immigrate illegally and get free healthcare and other benefits, for example.

Oh, and you bring up a good point about your not paying taxes in the U.S. As a taxpayer, I object. (Not really.)

For your situation, couldn't you try and get a visa in any EU member country for a year, and be covered that way? I'm not sure how that would work for a cruiser with no fixed address. It becomes a thorny issue.
Your logic totally escapes me. Did not suggest in any manner that legislation should be written regarding 60k or any other monetary amount. Did suggest that a method should be implemented to allow for extended Schengen visa. And I said nothing about not paying taxes in the USA. We most certainly do pay taxes in the USA for all income annually; but our money is spent outside the USA in whatever locality we are cruising. Like 99.99999% of all cruisers we have a fixed address for legal and residential purposes and we pay taxes based upon that residence address to our home country. Again, your logic totally makes no sense to me.

As to obtaining a visa in any EU member country for a year, we have already tried that at an Italian consulate. This has been discussed previously. The Italian consulate advised that a marina address would not be allowed. We would have to pay for both a marina and for a land home in order to be considered for a visa longer than 90 days. That is cost prohibitive. Supposedly, one can obtain an extended visa if berthed in a marina in France but that has been argued as not possibly by others more familiar with France.

Again, the OP inquired if anyone had found the Schengen rules in the EU to be off-putting to sailing the Med. I have. Others have differing opinions but I am entitled to mine just as much as anyone else is entitled to theirs.

Judy

P.S. How is it possible to spend 60k USD in Turkey? Very easily! Marinas, fuel, food, restaurants, inland trips, hotels, rental cars, domestic flights, boat parts, bimini replacement, routine haul-outs, shade awning construction, gifts & souvenirs, clothes, buses, taxis, bars, etc., etc.,etc.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:53   #187
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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Just a point, tax residency is on a country by country basis, no EU wide tax residency ( well not yet anyway, ask me again next year !!).
I think likely only for the Eurozone countries, he who pays the piper etc..........Greater Germany? / The 4th Reich? .

On a completely unrelated (to sailing) note , I see that Belgians have recently been complaining about the Germans re-introducing their policy of Untermenschen working in factories on slave wages. I am sure the Germans have plans to counter that criticism - probably take them under a week. again .

We live in interesting times........
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:03   #188
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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As to obtaining a visa in any EU member country for a year, we have already tried that at an Italian consulate. This has been discussed previously. The Italian consulate advised that a marina address would not be allowed. We would have to pay for both a marina and for a land home in order to be considered for a visa longer than 90 days. That is cost prohibitive. Supposedly, one can obtain an extended visa if berthed in a marina in France but that has been argued as not possibly by others more familiar with France.
Having a physical non-floating address requirement is not a surprise. You have one in the USA ... same thing in Italy and most other countries. I think you could make it work if you really need/want to. You do not need to rent/buy a house to arrange for a place that you can claim to be your home (and to receive your tax statements) ... me thinks.

Anyway ... good luck!
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:06   #189
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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I think likely only for the Eurozone countries, he who pays the piper etc..........Greater Germany? / The 4th Reich?
my language lessons are coming on well, all the same. i intend to remodel the house with all nice flush grey laminates and a single flower in a vase.. The dog is putting up an argument though .

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Old 11-04-2013, 12:07   #190
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
I think likely only for the Eurozone countries, he who pays the piper etc..........Greater Germany? / The 4th Reich? .

On a completely unrelated (to sailing) note , I see that Belgians have recently been complaining about the Germans re-introducing their policy of Untermenschen working in factories on slave wages. I am sure the Germans have plans to counter that criticism - probably take them under a week. again .

We live in interesting times........
Don't mention the....
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:08   #191
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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Again, the OP inquired if anyone had found the Schengen rules in the EU to be off-putting to sailing the Med. I have. Others have differing opinions but I am entitled to mine just as much as anyone else is entitled to theirs.
I think for cruisers , its undeniably an issue , and to a greater or lessor extent , a problem. If you want to stay strictly within the rules, it does impose a degree of nuisance.

It can be done and there are enough loopholes and bolt holes to manage the situation at the moment.

Should it be resolved , sure, will it, not today or tomorrow thats for sure, long term cruisers are simply utterly statistically irrelevant unfortunately.

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Old 11-04-2013, 12:09   #192
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
I am sure that some folks do get used to money being able to buy their way to conveniance, but things don't always work that way. This is one of them.

For 500 million people the EU works very well for travel purposes (at least ). A few thousand(?) foreigners being inconvenianced is a price I am sure most feel worth paying........



As said before, even a few thousand doing that is economically insignificant, and likely would not even cover the cost of enforcement for the few thousand that would truly benefit let alone for those who would use an extended schengen visa as a way of staying pretty much permanently in the EU without becoming tax paying residents (as GBN has pretty much said, unless you coming and going via an airport then enforcement pretty low - for all it's shortcomings the EU is not a Police State , so we don't have a squillion Agencies keeping us "safe" on a daily basis)...............Now, if you could persuade half a million of your fellow Americans to come over for 90 day plus extended visits spending that sort of money every year then the EU might listen a bit more. Might .

In regard to North Africa not being safe for Americans, that more to do with the USA than the EU (the USA actually has gunboats!) - the EU simply has time and a willingness to share economic prosperity (present difficulties excepted!) with countries on it's doorstep and that likely will also benefit Americans on boats......just not yet .
I cannot see how allowing extended Schengen visas would logically extend to assuming that would result in people "staying pretty much permanently in the EU". That assumption is that people want to violate the law rather than to follow it. If someone is willing to go to the trouble of obtaining a visa extension then that person is likely to be the type person who wants to follow laws rather than the type person who wants to get around laws or ignore laws when convenient. If I didn't care about abiding the laws then I would have no qualms about over-staying the Schengen 90-day limits like apparently some people do today and what some people in this thread appear to suggest is tolerated by European authorities. All sort of wink-wink, nod-nod, you are violating the law but we will ignore it and pretend you aren't here.

As I stated in the other posting, the OP inquired if the 90-day rules were off-putting to anyone regarding cruising the Med. Yes. YMMV, but my answer is an emphatic yes.

Judy
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:15   #193
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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I cannot see how allowing extended Schengen visas would logically extend to assuming that would result in people "staying pretty much permanently in the EU". That assumption is that people want to violate the law rather than to follow it.
The simple issue is that there is no demand. Hence getting all the Schengen countries to agree to a extended visa, that would be used by a very small few, is very unlikely.

Quote:
As I stated in the other posting, the OP inquired if the 90-day rules were off-putting to anyone regarding cruising the Med. Yes. YMMV, but my answer is an emphatic yes.
Is it a nuisance, yes, "off-putting" well thats a personal perspective , I certainly wouldn't let it deter me from seeing one of most fabulous cruising areas in the world. I mean it can be done legally and many are so doing.

Its entirely worth the effort.

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Old 11-04-2013, 12:20   #194
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

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Originally Posted by Richard_W View Post
Having a physical non-floating address requirement is not a surprise. You have one in the USA ... same thing in Italy and most other countries. I think you could make it work if you really need/want to. You do not need to rent/buy a house to arrange for a place that you can claim to be your home (and to receive your tax statements) ... me thinks.

Anyway ... good luck!
A marina address is not a floating address. That marina doesn't move. It is no different than renting an apartment or a house. The contract states that you have paid for that address for a specific period, which would be the period of the visa. You are not required to spend 24/7 in a rental house; nor are you required to be berthed 24/7. But that address remains yours and where you can be contacted for the duration period of that contract/visa. It really is simple and is common in other countries. FWIW, someone else suggested that one could simply alter the marina contract as to appear that it is an apartment or home. I would never do that. Illegal, IMHO, and some of us are sticklers to following the law.

Judy
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:24   #195
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Re: Are you put off sailing in the EU?

At the risk of getting peoples hackles up about doing the right thing and all.

I would like to enquire wether people who have cruised this area for an extended period have shall we say taken a more relaxed view of the shenghen shenanigans?

I mean a lot of what has been written here involves tax and plenty of money, questions that may bother those with a fat wad I am sure. I would like to think there are still cruisers out there who have taken to the sea to get away from all this paperwork and officialdom.In saying that I do realize the risks etc.with not having all the paper work in triplicate.

As a youngster i went over to Blighty and worked over there, fell in love but because I was from Africa I could only stay for six months.My mates from OZ/N.Z had a longer period on work visas.I did overstay, I blame it on a certain English rose with dimples.On leaving the U.K my passport was not checked and I went back to Africa.

I intend on cruising the Med in the future and then across the pond to the Carib. but to be honest for the amount of effort it will take to get there from Oz. I think old habits will die hard.
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