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Old 21-04-2010, 08:58   #16
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I'd rather be the guy out sailing and kedging MYSELF off of a sandbar than the guy in the slip too afraid to go out because the foreward looking sonar is on the fritz again.
Then again I also get a sick pleasure out of doing that sort of thing.
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Old 21-04-2010, 09:10   #17
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even worse

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That and avoiding being laughed at and ridiculed by my peers.

The jeers of my peers I can handle. We have a mob of really old coasties at my home marina. They will stand on the dock and glare at you and demand that you shape up or ship out. Since I won't ship out I guess I better shape up. I get paranoid when I see them comming.

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Old 21-04-2010, 09:17   #18
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I'd rather be the guy out sailing and kedging MYSELF off of a sandbar than the guy in the slip too afraid to go out because the foreward looking sonar is on the fritz again.
Then again I also get a sick pleasure out of doing that sort of thing.
I like that.

Maybe you will get a kick out of this:
Sail Delmarva: Are You "Captain Safety?"

Whether a practice is paraniod often requires more information than the person has about what can happen, and that is why we have standards of all sorts. It is when we apply ocean standards in a small lake and big boat standards on day sailors that things get a little weird.

My take is that one should only ignor of modify a standard when you either clearly understand and accept the risk or have a logical difference in application.
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Old 21-04-2010, 09:50   #19
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. But some things I read of people doing in the name of safety make me wonder how they could ever go out to sea if they are that worried. .
Don, you would not believe the number of people whose posts here indicate that I should still be in home port.

I can assure you of one thing: You will die. Probably sooner than me. Its time for you, and us all, to get off our butts and live life to the fullest whilst our hearts are beating in a semi-regular enough fashion to keep us out of the nursing home.

There are lots of folks who have not, and probably will never, leave home port. Don't let their thoughts slow you down on your goals.

Pull up the chain and bugger off into the sunset. If your boat stuffs up you can still have it fixed along the way. If you find you really need something then get it along the way.

And as for safety: My first offshore skipper is now in his mid 80's (maybe very late 80's!) and I saw him when I was in Sydney bringing his 48 foot boat, solo, into the yacht club marina handling the boat like a fine precision instrument... He said to me: "My daughter tells me not to go out on my own because I might fall overboard.

I couldn't think of a better way to go!" He smiled a genuine smile. He meant it.

So there you are. Live life the way you want till God takes you away. Or have years ahead of you stymied by the fear of others.

I think you already know the answer, Don


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Old 21-04-2010, 11:35   #20
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He said to me: "My daughter tells me not to go out on my own because I might fall overboard.

I couldn't think of a better way to go!" He smiled a genuine smile. He meant it.

Mark
Love it!!

Don:
I guess the car cant fall through the pavement really and deprive you of air so there is the difference.

I say be prepared as best you can but don't let not being able to control everything get in the way of your enjoyment.

I suppose for some, and probably more women then men, like my wife...this is the real issue with crossing an Ocean or getting out of sight of land...an utter feeling of isolated helplessness that overwhelms their ability to enjoy themselves...If I had that problem I would not be able to enjoy myself either.

Put me in a room full of Liberals and I get very close to those feelings..
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Old 21-04-2010, 11:57   #21
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While I prefer to avoid clinical language in casual discourse, and will therefor refrain from discussing paranoia here, at the same time I'm convinced that fear influences far too many sailing decisions. I'm amazed at the number of forum members who fear going to sea in anything short of a lifeboat-with-a-stick sort of vessel, preferably built of armor-gauge steel with a coffin-size cockpit and a fully encased rudder. The attitude seems to be, "Well, I may never exceed four knots or point higher than seventy degrees, but at least I'll survive the next tsunami."

No thanks. My two main criterion for a boat is that (1) it has to sail well, and (2) it has to be fun to sail.
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Old 21-04-2010, 12:59   #22
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While a little fear is a healthy thing, do you think maybe we are a little too paraniod? Not to say some of the things we do in the boating world to make the boat "safe" are not worth it, but some are a little overboard. Things like hoses that experience 2 PSI working pressure being rated for 150 psi and double clamped. Hatch frames that could with stand a 50' tall wall of water coming down on it. Enough electronics to have won WWII with their accurancy to target things. A harness that would hold up a pro football teams linemen. Check engine oil everytime you start the engine (when was last time you checked your car oil).

I'll all for doing simple things "to be sure" within reason. But some things I read of people doing in the name of safety make me wonder how they could ever go out to sea if they are that worried. Compared to the most dangerous thing most of us do of getting in our cars without any safety checks; the things we do to our boats is pretty impressive sometimes.
What I've noticed is that those who have most extensive experience crossing oceans tend to be the ones most obsessive on their own boats about fundamental issues of safety. And I'm not talking about flares, lifelines, or radio. Their boats are well constructed, mild mannered, balanced affairs, very organized, and run with an efficiency that comes from experience.

The issue here, as I perceive it, is knowing what's important for safety, and what's just gravy. Big surprise, but those with the most experience have the best handle on this--in my estimation.
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Old 21-04-2010, 13:05   #23
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One example. I know of one gentlemen with a few miles under his belt who will not start a crossing without first going under the cockpit to check every inch of cable for his rudder steering system.

I don't hear of a lot of people doing this, but he does, and he makes no apologies to anyone for doing so. He's the type I pay attention to.

(Moreover, he's got extra cable for mid-crossing replacement if needed. Obviously, he doesn't consider steerage as optional or gravy. )
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Old 21-04-2010, 13:17   #24
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While I prefer to avoid clinical language in casual discourse, and will therefor refrain from discussing paranoia here, at the same time I'm convinced that fear influences far too many sailing decisions. I'm amazed at the number of forum members who fear going to sea in anything short of a lifeboat-with-a-stick sort of vessel, preferably built of armor-gauge steel with a coffin-size cockpit and a fully encased rudder. The attitude seems to be, "Well, I may never exceed four knots or point higher than seventy degrees, but at least I'll survive the next tsunami."

No thanks. My two main criterion for a boat is that (1) it has to sail well, and (2) it has to be fun to sail.

True story. When I first moved to the PNW, I spoke with three sailors just back from cruising the inside passage to and from Alaska. All three hit barely submerged logs. The two with fiberglass boats where holed and their trip was serious compromised by the time for repairs. Only the steel boat wasn't holed.

Sometimes where you cruise dictates the ideal boat. Remember, it's not paranoia if them logs really are out to get you.

Another true story. I was in a bay in Kenai Fjord NP Alaska calculating how deep the bergy bits were compared to the depth of my prop. I distinctly remember never again would I do this without an encased prop. Not that encasement is a talismen, just that I wanted every damn advantage I could get, because it was freaking remote, no radio contact whatsoever, and I had no extra prop on board. I was sweating fear that day. Enough that it stuck.



I think one needs to make distinctions between imagined fear versus really experienced, past-tense fear.
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Old 21-04-2010, 13:43   #25
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That's it John..Im Kevlar reinforcing my hull!

PS: Check your email...Im thirsty!
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Old 21-04-2010, 14:09   #26
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As I said in my orginal posting I believe a certain amount of fear is good and I do plan around the basics. I do have all the required safety gear plus some extra items. But I go out instead of sitting on the boat, and do so in conditions not always that nice (no fair weather sailor be I).

When I was in the navy on submarine duty I used to ask my guys once in a while if they had any fear about what we were going. I didn't really like it when they said they didn't, so I would take them on a little tour of the boat and point out the various dangers waiting to kill us. And I can tell you that if we had the same safety check lists on the sub to cross the ocean at 500'+ below the surface that some have for taking their boat out 10 miles from shore that we never would been able to leave the pier!
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Old 21-04-2010, 15:05   #27
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Old 21-04-2010, 15:19   #28
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Generally, if you don't go with all the safety precautions, you'll only sink once.
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Old 21-04-2010, 16:16   #29
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No thanks. My two main criterion for a boat is that (1) it has to sail well, and (2) it has to be fun to sail.
[
G'DAy Bash,

I for one agree with this, but really in this case does not 1=2? No, that's not the new math, but just that if a boat is fun to sail it must sail well!

And on the main theme of this thread, seems to me that way too many parts of our lives are suffering from control through institutionalized fear. Avoiding this is one of the reasons for going cruising.

And by the way, just what sort of a boat is a "h46LE"?

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 21-04-2010, 16:20   #30
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Generally, if you don't go with all the safety precautions, you'll only sink once.
Wow that is an amazing line. Is that original?
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