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Old 14-11-2015, 06:22   #1
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ARC 2015

There is another thread about the much smaller ARC+, here:
ARC 2015

So I will reserve that only for the ARC, the big one.

Regarding the two I have a question that I posted on the other thread and that had no reply: Why do the vast majority of cats prefer to do the Atlantic cross with a stop in Cabo Verde while the vast majority of monohulls prefer to do it directly?

It is not a coincidence, it happened last year, it happened this year again. Anybody has an explanation for that?

Regarding the ARC some posts were made already on other thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
...
BTW Have just watched a Neel 45 RACING edition dock. Chatted to the skipper. 6 tons, taller mast, etc. Pretty cool....
b.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
You mean the Neal 45 that is going to make the ARC? I am very curious about the performance of that boat on the ARC. Some years back, in 2011 I saw the first one on the water and I was not impressed.

I was sailing a brand new Salona 41 performance and with light winds was way faster than the Neel. I went near the boat to see it well and the guys were kind of pissed with me circling the boat and wenting away after that. I guess it will be a fast boat downwind with medium and strong winds, if well sailed..
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Yep. Her skipper said they averaged 11kts on the passage from (?) (I think he said Madeira). We will see how they do....

Other fine boats here to watch now are a new Pogo 40s2, one Pogo 50, two new Jeanneau SunFasts 3600, an Azzurree 45 (or 6?) and something new and white, but I must check the inscripts to tell you what she is. She looks alloy or carbon, very long, with fancy midship windows ...

The long white thing is:
http://megayachtnews.com/wp-content/...eck-bd80-2.jpg
One source says it is a Turkish carbon. She looks carbon from the dock allright. Depending on who drives her, she can take the cruising division IMHO.
b.
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.. that Carbon white thing looks pretty ugly to me. A azuree 46 is doing reasonably well on the ARC+. I like the boat: very nice interior, good quality, nice design (Humphreys) at a very good price. A very nice cruising boat...and Turkish too They are doing a new 40ft boat. Posted about that on my blog.

If you can have a look at the Pogo50 interior I believe you will be surprised, I mean kind of zen, but in a kind of nice way and it has everything you need for long range cruising if you are a sportive sailor.
..
https://www.worldcruising.com/arc/ar...ntentries.aspx
http://www.worldcruising.com/arc/eventfleetviewer.aspx
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Old 14-11-2015, 06:52   #2
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Re: ARC 2015

I changed opinion that carbon Turkish made boat looks not bad after all. Blame it on the picture you have posted that made it look odd. Certainly that big "window" on the saloon is very unusual on a sailboat but if structural integrity is maintained that would be a nice solution (and I didn't see no reason for that not to happen). It looked odd on the photo you posted but on a side photo it looks not bad and it certainly can sail fast:




"sailing yacht Bliss II (Bd80) is a lovely 24-metre High Tech Cruiser, built by the Turkish shipyard, Cyrus Yachts. Penned by beiderbeck designs, superyacht Bliss is a fast yet luxurious cruising yacht, which can be easily handled by a small or larger crew....Built in composite..."

http://www.charterworld.com/index.html?sub=yacht-charter&charter=sailing-yacht-bd-9089

beiderbeck designs GmbH - Yacht Deisgn, Interior Design, Naval Architecture,



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Old 14-11-2015, 07:07   #3
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Re: ARC 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
There is another thread about the much smaller ARC+, here:
ARC 2015

So I will reserve that only for the ARC, the big one.
It's actually about Lagoon's in the ARC+ although people have surprisingly for the forum gone OT

I'll be following the ARC closely as I'm starting to look if ARC 2016 fits with my other plans
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Old 14-11-2015, 08:22   #4
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Re: ARC 2015

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It's actually about Lagoon's in the ARC+ although people have surprisingly for the forum gone OT

I'll be following the ARC closely as I'm starting to look if ARC 2016 fits with my other plans
Yes, the original poster on that thread is the one that is sailing the Lagoon 38 that is making a hell of a crossing.

I did not see the need to open another thread about the ARC+ and since nobody seems to mind that thread become not only about the crossing of that Lagoon but about the ARC+.

They have some reasons for complaint I would say, I mean Lagoon owners, not only monohull sailors treat them as if Lagoons were no good for anything else except for motoring and having a floating condo as many performance cat owners seem to share the same opinion.

You have only to see the comments on that thread about multihulls motoring a lot and the disbelieve about a guy that said that he had made 15 000k on a lagoon in 3 years.

Fact is that it is not the first time I had saw well sailed Lagoons, on the ARC, beating not so well sailed performance cats of the same size or bigger and it is obvious that the Lagoons can have a good performance on the trade winds, that is the route you follow when you want to voyage extensively. Also many have circumnavigated and they have not done that motoring.

Now, on that same thread we also heard a guy saying that old story regarding cats on passage to be faster than monohulls. Well, that is not what other ARC and the ARC+ (in a generic way) have showed and we will see what will happens on this one.
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Old 14-11-2015, 08:28   #5
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Re: ARC 2015

Because owners and charter guests of the cats have not yet been to Cabo Verde. You can swap guests there too. Inexpensive flights from Canarias (I think Binter line).

There are more charter cats than mono charters in the ARC.

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Old 14-11-2015, 09:35   #6
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Re: ARC 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Because owners and charter guests of the cats have not yet been to Cabo Verde. You can swap guests there too. Inexpensive flights from Canarias (I think Binter line).

There are more charter cats than mono charters in the ARC.

b.
I guess that it was just to give me work! From the 16 cats that participate on the ARC+ only 2 are not privately owned.

Off course many will have sailors as crew that will share expenses but regarding that the situation is not different on the ARC and on the ARC+.

Yes, if going to Cabo Verde it is possible to change the crew but that does not explain why cats do it more than monohulls.
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Old 14-11-2015, 09:41   #7
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Re: ARC 2015

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Yes, if going to Cabo Verde it is possible to change the crew but that does not explain why cats do it more than monohulls.
Based on the discussions in another thread, it could be to refuel


I was just going through the names and there are two yachts called "WHY NOT" and a third called "WHYKNOT". Could cause problems on the radio
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Old 14-11-2015, 14:06   #8
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Re: ARC 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post
I guess that it was just to give me work! From the 16 cats that participate on the ARC+ only 2 are not privately owned.

Off course many will have sailors as crew that will share expenses but regarding that the situation is not different on the ARC and on the ARC+.

Yes, if going to Cabo Verde it is possible to change the crew but that does not explain why cats do it more than monohulls.
Please now think of the time required to sail to St Lucia vs. the time required to Cabo Verde. Also think of the leg from Cabo Verde versus the whole in one go.

Hard working middle class (an obliterate term, I know) northern European people do not get 4 weeks of vacation to sail the whole long leg. It is only 6 to 8 days to Cabo Verde and most cats can sail in less than 3 weeks from Cabo to St. Lucia.

I hope this explains.

b.
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Old 14-11-2015, 14:09   #9
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Re: ARC 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post

(...)

Off course many will have sailors as crew that will share expenses (...)
Yes. This is where I was pointing my finger.

Where I grew up we called such people charter guests. That was before the whole PC shumbag.

;-)
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Old 14-11-2015, 17:46   #10
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Re: ARC 2015

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Please now think of the time required to sail to St Lucia vs. the time required to Cabo Verde. Also think of the leg from Cabo Verde versus the whole in one go.

Hard working middle class (an obliterate term, I know) northern European people do not get 4 weeks of vacation to sail the whole long leg. It is only 6 to 8 days to Cabo Verde and most cats can sail in less than 3 weeks from Cabo to St. Lucia.

I hope this explains.

b.
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What you say to cats would be valid too for monohulls since the from the multihulls that are doing the ARC+ only two are chartered. But what we can see is that there are a much bigger proportion making the ARC+

Chartering and contributing for expenses is not the same thing. Most crews on those boats are constituted by fiends, sometimes 2 couples, being one of them the owner of the boat. Contributing for expenses means paying their share of the costs.

Chartering is a business, the objective is profit and in this case we are not talking about sharing expenses but to pay to have the privilege of crossing the Atlantic doing a soft race and from the owner/Skipper point of view, to make money while having some fun. Much more costly than sharing expenses, for the "guests". There are lots of boats doing this kind of "charter" on the ARC and ARC+ even if they are a relatively small number regarding the ones that are sailed by a couple/family and friends.
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Old 15-11-2015, 06:13   #11
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Re: ARC 2015

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What you say to cats would be valid too for monohulls since the from the multihulls that are doing the ARC+ only two are chartered. But what we can see is that there are a much bigger proportion making the ARC+

Chartering and contributing for expenses is not the same thing. Most crews on those boats are constituted by fiends, sometimes 2 couples, being one of them the owner of the boat. Contributing for expenses means paying their share of the costs.

Chartering is a business, the objective is profit and in this case we are not talking about sharing expenses but to pay to have the privilege of crossing the Atlantic doing a soft race and from the owner/Skipper point of view, to make money while having some fun. Much more costly than sharing expenses, for the "guests". There are lots of boats doing this kind of "charter" on the ARC and ARC+ even if they are a relatively small number regarding the ones that are sailed by a couple/family and friends.
I am not talking sharing expenses. Expenses of moving one human from Gran Canaria to Mindelho can't be as high as EUR 1000+ charged for the trip by owners. Or am I so detached from the rarefied world of financial calculus? I might be. I was a banker in my ex life.

If you do not like the working definition of charter I gave you, I can agree to something like 'paying guests'. But this is really my best pitch.

Now, charter or not aside, if NOT charter, then what is the reason?

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Old 15-11-2015, 06:39   #12
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Re: ARC 2015

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I am not talking sharing expenses. Expenses of moving one human from Gran Canaria to Mindelho can't be as high as EUR 1000+ charged for the trip by owners. Or am I so detached from the rarefied world of financial calculus? I might be. I was a banker in my ex life.

If you do not like the working definition of charter I gave you, I can agree to something like 'paying guests'. But this is really my best pitch.

Now, charter or not aside, if NOT charter, then what is the reason?

b.
Never said it was cheap to cross the Atlantic on the ARC but what I was pointing out is that there are three different situations: the ones that cross with their normal crew, that most of the times is a couple (not frequent), the ones that with a reinforced crew with family or friends (that can contribute to expenses), the more frequent situations, and the ones that make of the ARC a business and have paying "guests" for the crossing.

On the last case we can talk about chartering and obviously the prices here are very different than the contributions or shared expenses on the family/friends case.

Regarding prices for those guest here you have an advertise. Starting prices start at 4230 euros:
http://www.performanceyachtcharter.c...-for-cruisers/

Regarding the cats choosing more the ARC+ with a stop on Cabo Verde that's because it puzzles me that I ask

Maybe cat owners enjoy more the company of other cat owners and informally decided kind of join all together? Maybe by the same reason that in this forum there is a Monohull and Multihull separated forum? I confess that one puzzles me too, as if both were not all sailing boats.
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Old 15-11-2015, 07:36   #13
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Re: ARC 2015

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Maybe cat owners enjoy more the company of other cat owners and informally decided kind of join all together? Maybe by the same reason that in this forum there is a Monohull and Multihull separated forum? I confess that one puzzles me too, as if both were not all sailing boats.
Maybe cat owners decided sailing in the same fleet with a tri is shooting bullets into their own feet?

;-)

I fully agree on the multi - mono schism - puzzling, and unnecessary. Not from my sailing point of view in any case.

BTW I have looked up Neel website and can't see the RACING line there. And yet I am holding their RACING LINE brochure in hand right now ... how odd. Why not post the content online (or else is the RACING line only a publicity stunt?)

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Old 15-11-2015, 07:43   #14
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Re: ARC 2015

Back to that Turkish delight though: I watched the video and I must say I am slowly buying into those panoramic topside windows.

I have seen them on an Xquisite Catamaran, then on an Oyster, now on this big white boat ... not what I would like in the ice or on a rough fishing harbour wall BUT I think they will be a huge charter selling point. Maybe they can be extended under waterline too?

Za Neel has a fine panoramic window in the sleeping "cabin". Pretty stunning views from there too.

Glad to see the engineering envelope getting pushed forward. It is always good for the whole community.

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Old 15-11-2015, 08:49   #15
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Re: ARC 2015

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
Back to that Turkish delight though: I watched the video and I must say I am slowly buying into those panoramic topside windows.

I have seen them on an Xquisite Catamaran, then on an Oyster, now on this big white boat ... not what I would like in the ice or on a rough fishing harbour wall BUT I think they will be a huge charter selling point. Maybe they can be extended under waterline too?

Za Neel has a fine panoramic window in the sleeping "cabin". Pretty stunning views from there too.

Glad to see the engineering envelope getting pushed forward. It is always good for the whole community.

b.
They started many years ago on the big motor yachts before coming to the sailboat world and have many years of testing that's why I think that if well designed and built they are not a problem...except in added cost.

Regarding the racing Neel, I follow most of the European races and never saw a Neel 45 racing. I believe the boat could do better than Condo cats with the same interior volume but will not be a match for performance cats.

The ARC is a downwind "race", so the Neel, as condo cats, will be at their more favorable point of sail but on most Offshore races there are mixed winds and upwind I believe the Neel is just another condo multihull going upwind more efficiently at 55º/60º.

By the way have you seen this one that is going to "race" too? Brand new boat and a production one LOL. I am not sure if the girl comes with the boat.




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