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Old 30-11-2015, 22:24   #181
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Re: ARC 2015

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The sails on the VOR are regulated and all boats carry the same sails, not here or in any other race where they can sail whatever they want.

Anyway on the VOR they carry asymmetrical spinnakers: A gennaker and a fractional code 0 spinnaker.
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With an average VMG of 13.5k for the whole course they weren't doing too bad. No point spending the money on adding a pole and a symmetrical spinnaker. They probably just used their old sails for this.
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Old 01-12-2015, 04:13   #182
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Re: ARC 2015

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With an average VMG of 13.5k for the whole course they weren't doing too bad. No point spending the money on adding a pole and a symmetrical spinnaker. They probably just used their old sails for this.
Has I said their old sails included spinnakers. I was not referring to any particular type of spinnakers but generically y to downwind sails. They carry asymmetrical Spinnakers.

They also use a strange kind of spinnaker pole near the transom:
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Old 01-12-2015, 06:10   #183
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Re: ARC 2015

Back on the ARC:

On the ARC+:

The glitches on the the beacons are more than many: several boats look to be stopped when they have already finished many hours ago. They could at least turn the signal off (maybe they can't).

Continuum with the arrivals, the Baltic 52 beat the Leopard 44 for a bit less than half a hour (that one was close), followed some hours after the 2nd Fountain Pajot 67 followed not far by a Beneteau Oceanis 54 an Azuree 46 and a Sun Odyssey 54DS.

3 hours later a Oyster 54 and 5 hours later a Lagoon 52 closely followed by a Beneteau oceanis 44cc. One hour later a Leopard 48 and very near a Sun Odyssey 49 followed by a Lagoon 400. The Fountain Pajot 57 that was sailing with this group give up and went directly to Antigua.

The next boat to arrive is a First 40.

ARC:
Far away from all the Carroll60 and the Southern wind maxi have a very interesting fight for the 2th place and the Grand Mistral 80 is also a contender.

On a second group the Knierim 49 has another interesting fight with a Oyster 825, a Pogo class40 and a Marten 68.

On a 3rd group leaded by an Advance 80 with a Neel 45 a X562 and the BD80.

Not far another group leaded by the Baltic 56, a Pogo 50, that is already ahead of the Outremer 51 and sailing faster and the always very well sailed and fast Oyster 48 light wave.

On the Southern route the Baltic 64, the Southern wind 72 and the SO 54DS and a Lagoon 52 are doing well also.

Among the smaller boats that are doing well and that follows these boats and for order of position, a Grand Soleil 46, a Fountain Pajot 48, a Grand Soleil 52, a Outremer 51, a Grand Soleil 43, a Luffe 37!!!!, a Lagoon 450, a Swan 441, a Sun Fast 3600!!, a Wauquiez 40s, a XP44, a Swan 46, a Dufour 40e!, a Pronavia 42, a Finngulf 46, a Halberg Rassy 48 Pogo 12.50, a Grand Soleil 43, a Sigma 62!!, a Maestro 40, a Reflex 38, a SO 439, a First 43.5, a Dufour 45e, a Sunfast 3600, a Najad 415 and a First 40.7.

I have looked for cats with 50ft or less but the 3 other Lagoons 450 and a Lagoon 39 are way behind. The first of those Lagoons 450 is at 50nm of that Najad 415 with lots of boats in between.
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Old 01-12-2015, 06:44   #184
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Re: ARC 2015

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The glitches on the the beacons are more than many: several boats look to be stopped when they have already finished many hours ago. They could at least turn the signal off (maybe they can't).
Turning the YB tracker off is easy, just as easy as it is to forget to turn it off

Sometimes I remember my tracker the day after spending the night swinging at anchor... **** happens
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Old 01-12-2015, 18:10   #185
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Re: ARC 2015

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Turning the YB tracker off is easy, just as easy as it is to forget to turn it off

Sometimes I remember my tracker the day after spending the night swinging at anchor... **** happens
Except that the boats made it to port but not the two trackers. Maybe they have thrown them on the water?

They are still there dead on the water near St Lucia but not quite, I mean the Fountain Pajot 67 and the Halberg Rassy 54. The boats arrived many hours ago to.

Finished with the ARC+ at least till they got the motoring hours. That can give us some interesting informations. Than I will look at the times...and the engine hours.

On the ARC the Advanced 80 seems to be flying. That is a bit of a surprise. The boat is luxurious, did not think it could be so fast. That X562 and the Baltic 56 are going also damn fast and seem to be leaving behind the Pogo 50 and the Outremer 51. Amazing that the old Oyster 48 can keep with those two (Pogo and Outremer): What a crew on the Red Oyster!!!

The three boats on the South (the Baltic, the Southern wind and the SO) are coming North already on the course to Santa Lucia. they have a better wind angle till arriving and they are coming faster. Very curious about how it will work out.

They have more miles to do but will be able to do them faster. The Baltic is making 9.2k, the SW 10.1 and the SO 8.8 and that is more the majority of similar boats are making. The Outremer is making 8.1 and the Oyster 48 8.4k.
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Old 01-12-2015, 22:09   #186
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Re: ARC 2015

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Except that the boats made it to port but not the two trackers. Maybe they have thrown them on the water?
Ok, seen the one you mean...

Very simple explanation. Their trackers might be set to report position once an hour or even more, and they turn it off just as they arrive in port
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Old 01-12-2015, 22:16   #187
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Re: ARC 2015

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There is another thread about the much smaller ARC+, here:
ARC 2015

So I will reserve that only for the ARC, the big one.

Regarding the two I have a question that I posted on the other thread and that had no reply: Why do the vast majority of cats prefer to do the Atlantic cross with a stop in Cabo Verde while the vast majority of monohulls prefer to do it directly?

It is not a coincidence, it happened last year, it happened this year again. Anybody has an explanation for that?
Maybe they are cruising? Maybe being cruisers, they don't want to simply sail past what might be a good anchorage and a nice place to visit?

Anyway it illustrates why the ARC isn't any guide to boat performance. Too many different agendas. Some serious racers, some laid-back cruisers...
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Old 02-12-2015, 04:51   #188
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Re: ARC 2015

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Maybe they are cruising? Maybe being cruisers, they don't want to simply sail past what might be a good anchorage and a nice place to visit?

Anyway it illustrates why the ARC isn't any guide to boat performance. Too many different agendas. Some serious racers, some laid-back cruisers...
Well. very welcomed to this thread.

To be cruising is not different between mono-hulls and cats so that cannot be the explanation. Someone had said that probably it was because cats motor more and they will refuel on Cabo Verde.

I had looked at the number of engine hours and in fact cats have motored more in average but some did not motor at all and others motored as little as many monohulls, so that is not the real difference, at least for all.

Regarding monohulls we can see that here there are very few modern and fast boats on the ARC+ while the cats are almost all new. The percentage of modern and fast monohulss is much bigger on the ARC than on the ARC+ so in what regards monohulls you hypothesis may be true.

But regarding cats you can have a point too, since the faster, the two Outremer 51 chose to do the ARC but you have also here two big performance ones, Catanas, a 472 and a 582.

In the end I believe that what brings a much bigger proportion of cats here is the same thing that makes this forum having two separated forums for sailboats of different type, monohulls and multihulls, a desire to be among the ones that share similar typed sailing boats.

I don't like it, I believe that they are all sailingboats and that this kind of attitudes only serves to increase the bias towards the two types creating a division where there should be none.

Regarding the ARC not providing an interesting comparative information regarding boats and boat's performance and the boats to be cruising I disagree and share this opinion that was expressed on that other thread, on the multihull forum:

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I do believe anytime there are two or more boats traveling the same direction at the same time it is a de facto race.
Nobody likes to be the last or to be overtaken by smaller boats, or monohulls by cats or vice versa. What makes this more interesting is that on the ARC you will find cruisers or not professional racers and the general level is not very high, not very different than the one of the average cruiser, so average results are very interesting precisely because they don't refer to what professionals can do on sailboats but to what average sailors can do.

Top results are interesting too since that means the boats are pushed near their rating and show what they can effectively do on a course that its favorable to multihull rating (downwind sailing). Also very interesting the big amount of multihull ratings that the ARC provide. Those ratings have been proved to be accurate regarding boats that are sailed near it.

Regarding the ARC+ it will also be interesting to look at the average time boats motor to see if it is true or not that multihulls tend to motor more than monohulls, even if this is a downwind passage and should not be a reason for that, except regarding different type of sailors to be more frequent on one type of boat or on another, referring to the type that uses more the engine
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Old 02-12-2015, 05:09   #189
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Re: ARC 2015

I said that I would not post any more about the ARC+ till the motoring hours are published but I think the next group deserves a post:

It is the one of the slower boats and old ones too, not very fast boats but very well sailed: The Halberg Rassy 352, the Laurin 32, the Albin 36 are coming together with a Dufour 39cc. They leaved behind several more recent and bigger boats like a Fountain Pajot 40, a Fountain Pajot 41, a Bavaria 44, a Bavaria 41, a Bavaria 39, a Lagoon 420, and a Lagoon 39. Chapeau to them.
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Old 02-12-2015, 05:51   #190
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Re: ARC 2015

Regarding the ARC, first note to say that southern route that It looked good to me and was only chosen by 3 boats, was in fact a good option. The Baltic 64 is now among the leading boats and together with the SW 72 and SO 54DS, in a position that will allow them a more favorable wind angle till the finish.

The Knierim 49 and the X 562 leaved the fastest multihull behind (a Neel 45R trimaran) while the Baltic 56 have left behind the Pogo 50 and the fastest of the Outremer 51.

Very curious that fight between the Outremer 51 and the Pogo 50, that I bet are or have been at sighting distance, following the same course. The speed of the two boats is very similar but on the last days the Pogo has been a bit faster and is now ahead doing 1k more than the Outremer.

Fantastic the performance of the Oyster 48 light wave that continues to be sailed at the same pace of the Pogo and Outremer. That Oyster is raced extensively by the crew but that takes nothing to the awesome performance. That Oyster has nothing in common with most of other Oysters being one of two performance cruisers Oyster has done in the late 80's, a great boat.

Among the first boats also worth to point out the good performance of a Grand Soleil 46 that sails ahead of another Grand Soleil, an older 52, that is on a fight with the 3rd fastest catamaran, a very well sailed Fountain Pajot 48 that are followed closely by a smaller Grand Soleil 43, that sails side by side with an incredibly well sailed Luffe 37.

Also a word about the More 55 that after having done some very odd (and bad) tactical decisions about routing is now sailing on the same course as most other boats and gradually approaching the faster ones.

A final mention for the oddest among the oddest routing options: the one of a recent Allures 39.9, an aluminum voyage boat and not a slow boat. His options show that it is not enough to have a voyage boat to be a good sailor. Some days ago I said that it would be better for those guys to come fast South.

Did not explain but if they remained there they would be caught first by very weak winds and then by very strong winds. Well, they kept they course, I have no idea why, and for more than a day they are doing less than 3k. Worse than that, they are going to be caught, and not in a glancing way, by 30k winds and that means bad seas also. 30K winds may not seem much but that will mean probably gusting 40/45. They are easy to spot, the lonely boat on the North, one of the last.

B, for what I understood you provide routing assistance. Waite for these guys and talk to them, they need very badly assistance on the way back that is more difficult than this passage.
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Old 02-12-2015, 08:04   #191
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Re: ARC 2015

Team Brunel have shot through and are not hanging around for the celebrations. Looks like they could be on their way to Sint Maarten perhaps to restock their chocolate sprinkles supply and have a beer with MarkJ
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Old 02-12-2015, 08:56   #192
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Re: ARC 2015

A Swedish friend send me some very interesting news about that Pogo 40 (Swedish crew) with a broken rudder that sometimes seems to go fast, sometimes seems to go slow (more fast than slow) and not always on the same tack. The explanation is funny: they dismount and change the only rudder every time they change tack

"For a few days we have been flying on a starboard tack. Wind easying a bit and boat speed last day was down to 10 knots. Felt like we were standing still!

But the time for a gybe were approaching as the weather forecast indicated a shift in the wind from 70 degress to 90. Due to the broken rudder on starboard side we cannot sail on the port tack. So when we finally had to gybe, to avoid ending up in Florida, we also had to switch the rudders. Moving the working port rudder to the starboard side.

It is indeed a risky thing to do, removing the rudder in the middle of the Atlantic. But the trick was to mount an M8 screw at the top of the rudder stock with a line attached to it. Then removing the rudder head and dropping the whole rudder down into the ocean. Then getting the line from outside and picking up the rudder. With a total stopping time of 2.5 hours including bringing down and up the sails, we are now up to speed on a port tack! Full main and grand spi we are again making some 10 to 13 knots in a light breeze!

Great work from everyone onboard and now we are flying towards Saint Lucia, the reggae and the Rhum!"


Mikael, Skipper"
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Old 02-12-2015, 14:02   #193
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Re: ARC 2015

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Well. very welcomed to this thread.

To be cruising is not different between mono-hulls and cats so that cannot be the explanation. Someone had said that probably it was because cats motor more and they will refuel on Cabo Verde.

I had looked at the number of engine hours and in fact cats have motored more in average but some did not motor at all and others motored as little as many monohulls, so that is not the real difference, at least for all.

Regarding monohulls we can see that here there are very few modern and fast boats on the ARC+ while the cats are almost all new. The percentage of modern and fast monohulss is much bigger on the ARC than on the ARC+ so in what regards monohulls you hypothesis may be true.

But regarding cats you can have a point too, since the faster, the two Outremer 51 chose to do the ARC but you have also here two big performance ones, Catanas, a 472 and a 582.

In the end I believe that what brings a much bigger proportion of cats here is the same thing that makes this forum having two separated forums for sailboats of different type, monohulls and multihulls, a desire to be among the ones that share similar typed sailing boats.

I don't like it, I believe that they are all sailingboats and that this kind of attitudes only serves to increase the bias towards the two types creating a division where there should be none.
LOL and yet you'd be just about the most biased person on this forum!

Anyway, love the way you can just decide what other people motivations are, and know with absolute certainty that you are right.

For myself, if I were doing an ARC, (I'd need to win the lottery more than once) or crossing the Atlantic by myself, there's no way I'd just sail past places without looking in. (Unless they had a really bad reputation)

To me, that's the whole point of CRUISING. It's not just sailing about aimlessly and endlessly, but it's about seeing new places and people.
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Old 02-12-2015, 15:15   #194
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Re: ARC 2015

Id like to say Polux seems to be very non bias in his reporting of the Arc, in fact I can almost sense he's being careful to not ruffle the feathers of a very sensitive few.
For what's it's worth I've owned two cats and two monos and when I grow up ( money ) would love a big performance cat, I say this so I'm not labelled bias.
Thanks for the reports Polux, I find them very interesting.
Cheers Dale.

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Old 02-12-2015, 16:31   #195
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Re: ARC 2015

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there's no way I'd just sail past places without looking in. (Unless they had a really bad reputation)
OK.

So you have CV and Barbados that are sorta 'on the way'.

Except that CV is sorta bad reputation and not really on the way, while Barbados is OK and maybe they should move the finish line to there. (If they do, I claim my copyright here and now).

Look at the CV pitstop for many boats its just too short to get any appreciation of the islands at all. The boats just sail in, fuel up, drink some beers, pay the marina fees and that's so much for 'looking in'.

BTW I know some who looked in once and now they bypass CV each time they cross.

So I am 100% with you on looking in, but the ARC+ stop at CV there is hardly any reason really.

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